Peter handles cars in many different ways. The car may not even belong to him and it's on consignment. Even if you do get it at a good price I see a ton of work to do just to make it presentable. Find out the actual condition of the Engine, transmission and hydraulics. If those are all good then cleaning up the rest of it isn't rocket science. I'm a DIYer and I did mine and even with only 3K miles I had to redo the heads and I did a lot more as well. I never could have paid anyone to do that at the time and I still spent a lot of time and money.
Thanks for the input. I am surprised you needed that kind of engine work at 3,000 miles. I'm currently considering a classic Maserati for a retirement "project". Or just to enjoy on weekends. I have moderate skills mostly semi competent in chassis, electric, interior. Minimal welding. I can finish assembling a built short block into a long block. But I've never completely torn down an engine, and other than patching pretty big rust holes with a welder I have no bodywork or paint skills. I'm not sure learning how to do that on a 100k car is very wise but who knows? Im actually considering either a Sebring or a Bora. Ive never even seen a Sebring in person but my dad had a Bora when I was a teen. I wasn't allowed to drive that car but he made me wash it weekly. One day I decided the best was to dry it was with high speed air. As in driving it really fast around the neighborhood. I wasn't that good with a manual transmission and shortly after that he sold it because it needed a new clutch after my shenanigans . He bought it new and used it as a daily driver. He traded it in for 17k! I think it was an 74 and he had kept it 5 years. After he sold it he pulled out all his receipts and marked on a calendar all the days it was in the shop. It actually had spent more time in the shop than on the road. Probably not a good choice for a daily driver (and you'd think that would deter me from getting a Maserati right? Wrong. I'm on my second Maz now and dreaming of a third. Must be a fetish. Throw a 71 Pantera in there as my introduction to Italian cars. Fun story: They couldn't get the webers tuned or something like that and finally Maserati sent a mechanic from Italy to go around the US and work on grumpy cars. He got it fixed all right but during the test drive, at speed, something hit and broke the windshield. Dealer said the trunk popped open but its hinged at the front so probably a story. Anyway no windshield in the US so one was shipped from Italy by sea so thats about three months in the shop right there. Another fun story: My dad didn't want to drive to Miami from Ft. Lauderdale to pick up the car after a service so he sent one of his staff. Guy was a weekend drag racer and apparently not afraid of speed. I asked him how fast did you take it? And he told me "as fast as it could go" LOL. On I-95. I'm kind of realizing either car, I'm probably better off getting one thats already restored and just needs maintenance. Doesn't have to be concours. Boras are a tad cheaper than Sebrings still and probably just as rare so may make more sense financially ie: more upside in value. Photos of the previous and currrent Maz's for interest (sport GT-S current DD, Cambiocorsa coupe prior DD) Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Probably true. Ive decided it needs too much work. I found one with 37000 miles, within the past several years had a complete engine rebuild and the Citroen components replaced. Looks like it just needs maintenance moving forward. More to come.
Just a caution about Boras ... they've been perpetually unpopular since I've owned mine (long time) so not a good investment. For that you'd do better with a Ghibli, Sebring or other early 6 cylinder cars. They are very well made, a bit cramped for me and I'm 6' 1/2" with long legs and those seats provide zero under leg support. I have the style of seats WO the thick padding which gives a bit more leg room but a bit less seat comfort.
It took me a while to figure out that I needed new head gaskets, the standard test with exposure of the radiator fumes to a test liquid never registered. A smog sniffer picked it up in 3 of my cars though. So I had to surface the head and ended up doing a nice 3 angle valve job while I was at it. By that time I had maybe 24K? miles on it.
What is involved in coverting USA side marker lamps to European ones? Lookes like the rectangular openings would need to be welded shut and then body and paintwork. Seems like alot of work and maybe thats why many of the bumper converted cars retain their USA side marker lights? Probably something only worth while if painting the whole car? Can anyone explain or is there a link to post that explains this? Thanks
Sounds like you've got it figured out, there's not much more to say. Converting the big rubber bumpers is a much bigger deal though. Frame changes in the rear plus a new lover valence and a reworked exhaust.
Thanks for your input. Does this conversion appear to pass muster? I realize there may be some frame work to make it right but its a 74 so maybe not?
It is very close. These are photos from a 1972 Euro version. Notice the placement of the license plate lights, the two rear reflectors and teh lack of a rear side marker. The front markets were mounted in line with the rubber side molding. Ivan Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Note that not all early Boras had rear reflector markers, which were likely country dependent... and possibly dealer installed?
You are correct as the Bora pictured in the early dealer brochure did not have them. Most Euro Boras seem to have them including the two Euro versions I previously owned. These are photos from 5 different Boras. Since the lens and placements are identical I must assume they were installed at the factory and not by the dealers. Ivan Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I became curious upon seeing these photos and just looked at a dozen or so Euro Boras I have either sold, represented or dealt with; most had these reflectors except very early cars. In this rare period photo during development testing with Ing. Giulio Alfieri, technician Cleto Grandi (with back to the camera) and Guerrino Bertocchi you can see an early prototype devoid of them. But that is the exception; most others have them. This is really early on because as I was told by factory interviewees Bertocchi got demoted from Bora development due to his contrarian anti rear mid engined road car attitude and Cleto Grandi was put in charge of testing and set up refinement. Image Unavailable, Please Login
A lot learned here. I appreciate all this information. Seems like those big license plate lights like the side marker are a bit of a bother. It looks like the smaller bumper mounted license plate lights could be added somehow, but not seeing it in person its hard to tell. I haven't actually laid eyes on a Bora personally since my dad sold his car over 40 years ago. The red reflectors look easy enough. In considering the white car as a potential purchase I can't see filling in those US side marker lights and what are probably few holes for those license plate lights unless I were going to do a lot of paint or a complete repaint. Now I can't stop seeing those licenses plate light as giant tumors.
I call the rectangular US side lights Ralph Nader pimples;-) I deleted them off my Khamsin 20 years ago while doing the bumper conversion and was very happy to have done so. A decision made easier as it had already had partial paintwork.
Did you have to weld a small patch into the rectangular openings where the Nader pimples used to live?
This is what the very last Boras got for a license plate holder and illumination, it's a Fiat piece. I don't see the point of those dinky reflectors. I think it clutters up the look and the taillights reflect anyway. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Good news. I just pulled the trigger on Bora 724. I've read through a few thread here including this one but still have some questions. What is the best motor oil for this? Engine was rebuilt 3000 miles ago. I live in Orlando and its been over 90 degrees F every day since March. We may get one or two nights just at freezing per year, but I don't envision driving this car on those nights most likely. I will just drive the car around town, no racing or track. Whats the best oil for the transaxle? Is there a thread on routine maintenance of Bora on FC? If so I didn't see it. Thanks for any advice. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Congrats. I don't know that there is a best oil for the Maserati V8 but synthetics have a tendency to leak past old school gaskets and seals and also run back down into the crankcase from the cams. That can leave them and possibly other bearings WO from startup after a long sleep.If it were me I'd look for a high quality conventional oil. I've been using Mobil 1 synthetic in my modern cars almost it first appeared on the market. I use it in my 84 Biturbo to resist coking in the Turbos. That car burns almost zero oil and oil stays cleaner than any other car I've ever owned. I also have an oil primer pump on that car. So drain down after long periods of sitting isn't an issue. However, in another car my 2005 Jag STR it is an issue. That car sat for 4 years due to a very difficult repair. Once I finally relented and admitted that I was just too damn old to torture my body in order to repair it I found a very good shop with younger than I, a well seasoned expert Jag mechanic and I had him recommission the car . So we did a lot of "while your at it" repairs because once you pull the supercharger to get at the $15 coolant hose which they so wisely placed there and didn't utilize high quality silicone you don't want to do all of that labor again for something that goes in the next 5K miles. Why am I telling you all of this? Well the engine has 65K and when he pulled the valve covers off there was zero sludge and the valve train looked brand new! he was very impressed. The Mobile 1 is that good. I've used Swepco gear oil for the ZF transaxle. Check your shift linkage for a couple of things. Typically the rubber boots on the knuckle joints fail. The OEM ones that came with my car were junk. I upgraded mine with silicone boots which were available from McMaster or any bearing supply house. The horizontal piece of the linkage goes right under the exhaust headers supported by two brackets with needle bearings. The shat slides and rotates through them but as Buster Poindexter would sing it's hot hot hot under there if the volatiles in the grease dry out this can cause binding. On mine I found that those two brackets with the needle bearings when mounted were not on the same longitudinal plain. This can be rectified via shim washers under the mounting point on the block. This is well worth the effort. There's other mods for the linkage and service tips for disassembly and assembly but I'm not going write a service manual here. I hope you're into learning about this car and becoming a DYI type or that you're wealthy but even if you are very few shops will know how to do this because it's a car that typically logged a lot of deferred maintenance and then was repaired poorly Mine is the last Bora off the assembly line and they never aligned the shift linkage properly. Yours is a nice color combination. Whats the Vin #?
Its 724, a US Bora with Bumpers changed. Its had a lot of maintenance and work done on it including aluminum radiator with better fans and a higher output alternator to power them. I saw that it was bid up to 155k on bring a trailer and I paid substantially less than that for it. All the receipts for the work done are still online at BAT and I read through them all. From what I can see it mostly needs cosmetic work and I'm ok doing that myself. Just figure that it hasn't been driven all that much over the past many years and it may be worthwhile to change the oil and trans fluids. I know the radiator fluid is a challenge on these cars but Ivan has a good write up on that. I am a DIY guy, I did a body off restoration on a beetle in my garage, everything but the paint itself but of course the Bora is a quantum leap more complicated than a bug, even with a Porsche motor transplant. Having read through this thread I saw your suggestions on the shift mechanism rubbers. Can that entire shift rod contraption be removed from the car without dropping the engine subframe out? Thanks for your reply to my questions.
