the F40 is undervalued | Page 12 | FerrariChat

the F40 is undervalued

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by ross, Jun 1, 2019.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Mar 25, 2002
    36,210
    houston/geneva
    Full Name:
    Ross
  2. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    The F40 is undoubtly iconic and as such it will probably ever be valuable - on the other hand there are many factors at play to fix the "right" price at one point in time, for instance today an F40 is valued more than a 365 GTB/4 (similar production numbers but older, so probably more rare) and personally I don't see why (well, it's because more people are wanting to pay more for an F40, but that's not the root cause ;)). The F40 is now old enough to be as difficult to use as a Daytona... and if I had the money to buy only one of the two I'd prefer the Daytona (but my case is irrelevant to reality, as illustrated by the current market).
     
    roma1280 likes this.
  3. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    May 23, 2006
    57,288
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    Have you driven an F40?

    For what it is, it's very easy to use, the Daytona too for that matter.
     
  4. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Mar 25, 2002
    36,210
    houston/geneva
    Full Name:
    Ross
    the absence of any information in your profile, prevents me from making this a definitive statement, but from what you have written, it does not appear that you have driven any of the cars you reference.
     
  5. randkin

    randkin Formula 3
    BANNED

    Aug 2, 2015
    1,497
    Somis, CA
    Full Name:
    Randy
    Isn’t valuation purely subjective? Every time there is a sale of anything, the purchaser is placing a higher subjective value on the item than the seller. So at that particular point in time it would seem that the sales price was perfect since a sale transpired and presumably between two knowledgeable transactors. If one of the transactors is not knowledgeable then an imperfect market value may take place. But in the case of a F40 sale, I would be inclined to infer both parties are knowledgeable. Future valuations are only hypothetical as events have yet to transpire which would affect the future value of an item. This only seems logically me, what am I missing?
    That said I have only driven very few Ferraris and certainly am NO expert on Ferrari valuations or any cars for that matter.
     
    Caeruleus11 likes this.
  6. rmolke85

    rmolke85 Formula Junior

    Mar 11, 2013
    748
    Have you seen an F40 next to basically any other supercar? They are 3 inches longer than a 964 911, let that sink in. And if you have a euro car its truly 2800lbs wet.
     
    ross and Caeruleus11 like this.
  7. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 12, 2007
    8,934
    At my dealer last week, two F40 in service next to Pista, 765LT, Laff, etc. Shocking how small and low the F40 is next to the modern SUV sized supercars
     
    Caeruleus11 likes this.
  8. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    May 23, 2006
    57,288
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    Thoughtful post.

    A couple of comments:

    Valuation isn't purely subjective, it's the result of many recorded data-points, made easy with F40s because Ferrari SpA produced enough of them to result in what I call a fairly defined market.

    Here's a guide: https://www.classic.com/m/ferrari/f40/

    Also, when there is a sale, the purchaser is not necessarily placing a higher subjective value on the item than the seller, sometimes the purchaser is paying what he/she perceives to be a necessary premium to get an excellent example of what a seller is cashing out of as the result of an upside-maximizing exercise.

    You are right though that especially in a Private Treaty transaction where there is zero pressure, that the sales price can be seen to be perfect since a sale can only transpire between two informed and satisfied transactors. This is precisely why Private Treaty sales data points are important, Auction results only paint half the picture.

    Future valuations are not purely hypothetical, although for the most part that is true. Consider that future performance is always based on past performance to a degree, subject to extenuating circumstances, so we at least have some idea where values are heading in the near future.
     
    Caeruleus11 likes this.
  9. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    Indeed I have not, but I've had some passenger time giving some idea of how they drive (and I understand they're different, and that one could prefer the F40 or the Daytona - the F40 seems to me to have some genuine race car feel, while the standard Daytona does not). Besides, for me both cars represent far more than a driving experience, so even if one of the driving experiences would be far better (which I'm not convinced - again, they're different, so difficult to rank one against the other), it would be difficult for me to admit it objectively justifies the current valuation discrepancy. Clearly the current market does not agree with me, but I'm not convinced it must be that way forever - I have some points after all...
     
  10. rumen1

    rumen1 Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jun 23, 2012
    1,682
    Bulgaria

    Attached Files:

  11. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 9, 2008
    8,539
    SoCal
    Full Name:
    Edward
  12. rossodino

    rossodino Formula Junior

    Dec 16, 2007
    447
    corona del mar, ca.
    Full Name:
    bruce sansone
    #287 rossodino, Mar 26, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2021
  13. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Mar 25, 2002
    36,210
    houston/geneva
    Full Name:
    Ross
  14. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Mar 25, 2002
    36,210
    houston/geneva
    Full Name:
    Ross
    Caeruleus11, E60 M5, Bas and 3 others like this.
  15. mikesufka

    mikesufka F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 4, 2006
    6,550
    Crosslake, MN
    Full Name:
    Mike Sufka
    What an incredible pair !!!

    MDS
     
    joe sackey and plastique999 like this.
  16. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    May 23, 2006
    57,288
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    We are proud to have supplied the fantastic USA F40 in that image, and what a great custodian he has turned out to be, maintaining, using and sharing the car as intended.
     
    plastique999 likes this.
  17. ralfabco

    ralfabco Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 1, 2002
    28,029
    Dixie
    Full Name:
    Itamar Ben-Gvir
    #292 ralfabco, Mar 31, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2021
    Our two under 30 y/o sons both know how to drive a manual. One of them has no use for an automatic in a performance car. Still working on the two under 30 y/o girls.


    ___


    I remember a thread on F.C. years ago where a potential owner asked if he should buy the new or as-new 430 or a 'driver' F40. The intelligentsia suggested the potential buyer pay the small premium, for the driver F40. No clue what he did in the end. The thread is somewhere in the archive.


    Back in the day some Kiwi wanted 250K or 275K, for the F40. Oh well.
     
  18. rmolke85

    rmolke85 Formula Junior

    Mar 11, 2013
    748
    All one needs to do is go on instagram, look at any CGT F40 F50 related posts and you will understand that the younger generations fully know what ones they are going to be after in the future. Its a big world, dont let some anecdotal observation from some younger kids fool you. Those that care are well informed as information flows much much more freely to them. There are droves of them dreaming of these car like never before because of the content available.
     
    JagShergill, ZF123 and joe sackey like this.
  19. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2012
    26,819
    West of Fredericksburg, VA
    Full Name:
    John
  20. Boomhauer

    Boomhauer Formula Junior

    Aug 18, 2007
    881
    Milano - Italia
    Full Name:
    Cardinal
    This is almost an exclusively American thing, pretty much everyone and their grandma knows and still learn how to drive a manual in the rest of the world.
     
    paulchua, Caeruleus11, LVP488 and 2 others like this.
  21. ralfabco

    ralfabco Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 1, 2002
    28,029
    Dixie
    Full Name:
    Itamar Ben-Gvir
    At 19 years old I learned over a payphone how to drive a manual. I rented a U-haul truck and the agent had no more trucks with automatic transmissions. Today my daily driver is a manual. Thanks U-haul.
     
  22. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Mar 25, 2002
    36,210
    houston/geneva
    Full Name:
    Ross
    what is the lowest price for an F40 driver today?
     
  23. oufan2929

    oufan2929 Rookie

    Oct 27, 2006
    11
    I’m all ears on this too!
     
  24. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

    May 29, 2019
    6,023
    Hopefully some place nice.
    Full Name:
    A.B
    True
    In western Europe 85% of new drivers still learn to drive a manual. It's ridiculous that one can even acquire a license without displaying proper car control. Learning to drive a manual forces you to engage with the car much more.

    Driving is not a right, it's a privilege.

    Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     

Share This Page