the F40 is undervalued

The main prob with F40's is the number built: too many.

Marcel Massini

 

I agree with Marcel... to many cars, thats the problem with the F40... none of the original Halo cars can be compared with this modern part in history, Look at the 599 GTO.. they are just not liked although compared to an F40 , rare... If they only made 300 F40's they would be nearly 8 million now... they trade a discount because of the numbers... F40's are 2 - 3.5 million .. they have traded the same multiple over the last 20 years.. nothing has changed. The same would be for other marques... the 80's to early 2000 was a sweet spot and that is shown in the prices achieved.
F40's will be 5 million plus in the next 5 years and everything else will move with it.. Feel fortunate to have 2 tucked away.

 

Another problem is that what used to be 1 million is now 10 million.
Money has no value anymore.
I remember well a friend of mine in 1979 paid 150'000 Swissies for a genuine 275 GTB/C (#09073). I was about to send him to the psychiatrist. Now, 45 years later, they are somewhere between 8 and 10 M.
Little did we know.

Marcel Massini

 

Don't forget an F40 is a bit like a Daytona, they made 1'315 F40s (they say) and approximately 1'383 Daytonas.
As sensational an F40 is, such a production number is just too high. Key is always the production number, always.

Marcel Massini

 

Like in any market, supply and demand drive the prices... production numbers directly impact the supply side, but there are many factors on the demand side.
When all these factors are considered at a particular point of time, there is no overvaluation nor undervaluation - just a "right" value with its explanations (and this value could go any direction in the future, depending on the evolution of the different factors).
Subjectively I would consider the Daytona undervalued, but rationally I have to admit it is not; the successful enough middle-aged men ready to spend $2M relate the F40 to the dreams of their youth, while the Daytona is too old to have the same appeal. As for the Speciale and Pista, there are just many more people able to spend $400K or $500K, so it's easier to find buyers at these levels (which increases the demand, and counter balances the higher supply).

 

So many stories like this,, I remember when I was selling 1 of my 3 F40's that I bought in 2000 ... I know they are very common ..... I remember the number 1 dealer in the world, telling me he would give up the Ferrari game if I ever achieved 1 million GBP for it.... well he is still active so I guess the times have changed..... Many broker and dealers over the years tell us our car's are to expensive.. you have to ask yourself why.... the main reason in my option is they need to make transactions and make their client feel they are getting a great deal.. I have never sold a car that has not realised the price I have asked for... given it might take a year... but always the price is paid... A dealer or Broker's will spin something different.. but the collectors and keepers make the market ... not the brokers.

 

Truth is that the F40 is special in a way that doesn't follow the rest of the market. The market cap will always be one of the highest only because it reaches every age group in terms of desirability and fascination. I'd say the floor at this time is $2M for even a car with miles. I'd give it another 7 years before the floor is $3M.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

 

Indeed, the demographic element plays most probably a big part - which may also mean that 10 years from now the Enzo (with the added advantage of a more limited production) could completely marginalize the F40, which will be of less interest for the then current generation of buyers.
Still, prices of the F40 could continue to increase, but I'm not sure they will at a rate higher than the money depreciation.

 

The 599 GTO is rare, undervalued, and we find, well-liked www.ferrarichat.com

The market is made by auction houses, dealerships, specialists/brokers/dealers, and owners, all in combination, not just by collectors & keepers.

It's worth remembering that many auction houses, dealerships, specialists/brokers/dealers actually own cars besides actively causing their sale, and therefore also have equity participation in the market.

I can count many instances where specialist brokers (myself included) have pushed the envelope and achieved world record prices despite the seller's reservations, simply because our market experience thought it could be achieved, thus establishing a new benchmark and making the market at that point.

An objective specialist will sometimes tell a seller his/her price expectations are too much, not because they want to make a deal, but because that's the reality of the current market, it's just not what the seller wants to hear. You have to remember also, many specialists/brokers/dealers represent both the seller & buyer as a facilitator (as I often do), and, work on a fee structure that is a percentage of the price achieved, therefore, the more the car sells for, the more we make. This begs the question, why would we not want to be sell an F40 for $10 million if it was possible? The fact remains that the market sets it's own level despite the never-ending desire to talk it up by sellers, or down by buyers, perhaps understandably so, and as such, auction houses, dealerships, specialists/brokers/dealers act as a meaningful referee between the selling & buying parties, helping establish the numbers that end up being the recorded data points that make the market.

 

There is no such thing as an objective specialist... when money is involved.. its a transaction.. I would love my F40's to be worth more than they are ..but the numbers produced inhibit that... When I bought them..they were the cheapest option of the super car series.. thats why I bought them.. I really would have preferred
3 288 GTO's or 3 F50 but that was not possible... so I bought the cheaper versions of what I wanted... every friend/ client I have bought F40's for love the car but regret they did not buy a 288 or F50.. Thats why i have been so busy the last year selling F40's and buying the other cars...

 

Nearly every one of my collector friends aspire to one day own an F40. I can’t think of another car that’s unanimously desired yet still ‘relatively’ attainable. It’s the one-and-done Ferrari model for multi brand collectors.

 

I'm sure they will at some point as its a very common car... and as you say quite attainable

 

Specialists often represent both the Seller & Buyer as the Facilitator (as we often do), and this allows us to be objective because our role isn't one-sided and therefore influenced by opinion of just one side about the assessment of the car and the price that should be achieved. I find this is quite efficient, and as a result some great cars change hands between satisfied parties.

 

Genuine question - what is this based on?

 

It's normal for owners of cars to feel they should be worth more, and equally normal for those who might want to acquire the same car to feel they are overpriced.

 

Have any of our Money Ball gurus done a market cap comparison of the Ferrari Supercars? Would it tell us anything?

 

Enzo's hand/say in its creation.

 

This metric has been floated more often over the last year or so, but I'm not sure really what it tells us. Super rough, napkin math incoming:

Model / Number Built* / Avg Market Price (US$) / Market Cap

288 GTO / 272 / $4.0 / $1.088B

F40 / 1311 / $2.5 / $3.278B

F50 / 349 / $4.5 / $1.571B

Enzo / 399 / $4.0 / $1.596B

Others:

McLaren F1 Roadcar / 64 / $20.0 / $1.280B
Porsche Carrera GT / 1270 / $1.3 / $1.651B


Looking at the market cap for the F40 in isolation does give some credence to the theory that had the F40 been built in numbers similar to the other Ferrari Supercars, that it would be a $10mm car... That said, if the F40 was $10mm, would a 288, F50 or Enzo only be worth less than half? Or would the risen tide of the F40 lift the other boats?

*According to the factory; no interest in debating this point, though we all know the real numbers are different...

 

the f40 wld be worth $10... the other cars are priced with full information in the market over many decades

 

I have:

https://datadriven.autos/market-analysis/ferrari-f40/#flagship-supercars