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the F40 is undervalued

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by ross, Jun 1, 2019.

  1. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I understand what you are saying.

    This thread titled as such was always going to elicit this sort of outcome.

    I'm not one for hypothetical scenarios and opinions where the market is concerned, preferring instead to just let actual sales date speak for itself.

    I'm always happy to engage in a discussion on F40 values, and if someone wants to start a neutrally-titled F40 values thread then that would be of value.
     
  2. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2013
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    These threads are always good to revisit a few years later and see what actually happened!

    It reminds me of the time I placed a car up for sale in 2014 that was just over 25 years old, my asking price was three times its original list price when new.

    The howls of dreamer, chancer etc on a thread about the car over on pistonheads were intense at the time.

    That car has now doubled in value yet again for the person who purchased it from me at the time, I do look up the thread now and again and laugh a bit, but also some sadness that I did not keep it.
     
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  3. Bradwilliams

    Bradwilliams F1 Rookie
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    The rubes who don't understand this are at this very moment oooooing and aahhhhing at every high production "cool car" produced in the late 80s, 90s and early 2000s that have low miles. Because let's face it anything somewhat old, with "low miles" is rare and collectible, and certainly worth 4x the value of a driver quality! It's pretty bizarre and funny to watch.

    80 grand for an E39 M5?
    174 grand for a supra?

    Uber low mileage never has meant anything in a normal market. Condition and service history are always king, with low miles giving you a little extra bump. The spread is always minimal. Whenever you see cars like this valued 4x higher due to "low miles" something isn't right. The people who are buying these as "investments" better be prepared to keep these cars for 3 or 4 decades, which is going to involve alot of service bills, storage, insurance etc. Best of luck to them.
     
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  4. Todd308TR

    Todd308TR F1 Veteran
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    Was the F40 the fastest or the best at anything in it's day? Any records? Any big wins?
     
  5. fbrs2

    fbrs2 Formula Junior

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    First production car to top 200?
     
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  6. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
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    The LMs won a few races. All three LM/GTE cars out-qualified all the McLaren F1 GTRs at the 1995 24 Hours of LeMans, but of course the F1 ended up winning that (in part due to weather and prototype car attrition). So it's no slouch when it comes to speed...

    https://www.racingsportscars.com/results/qualifying/Le_Mans-1995-06-18.html
     
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  7. MOSS

    MOSS Formula 3
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    If you own one, of course! If you are buying one they are over priced. These type threads are funny.
     
  8. lee168

    lee168 Formula Junior
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    I have been waiting for almost 11 years for the F40's price to drop to $180K....
     
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  9. ross

    ross Two Time F1 World Champ
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    hmmmmm have you figured anything out yet? ;)
     
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  10. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
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    #160 arizonaitalian, Jun 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
    ?? (you might be referring to how many came to the USA...but your point would be the same if you had the proper number of CS' made...its the same ballpark as the F40...which means just that...they were made in similar numbers. But, of course, production numbers are not the same as value, so its just interesting, not more)
     
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  11. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
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    That's an interesting point. I agree vis a vis CS vs. F40.

    The more interesting thing this leads to is the comparison of the CS to the 288GTO. For a moment consider the 288GTO was actually called the 288 Speciale. Is the CS coming from a 360 *that* different than the 288 Speciale vs its "source" car? (I agree with Marcel re the three letters bringing a huge difference of course...but the amount of changes from the base car were pretty significant on the CS and it was built in a separate place/line). This coming from a former CS owner, but one who's dream Ferrari is the 288GTO. To be clear, I am not arguing that CS should have the same value as a 288GTO either in absolute terms nor relative to its "source" car.

    Actually, I think its pretty clear to summarize on this matter - rarity (production numbers) matters...but, so too does "the car itself". Which explains why the F40 is worth so much more than the CS despite the same numbers. And the 288GTO is worth far more than a CS despite both being a heavily revised special car sourced/based upon a regular production Ferrari.
     
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  12. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS Formula Junior
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    Right. Which is why I said "crazy dreams".
     
  13. ross

    ross Two Time F1 World Champ
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    i loved my cs, and regret selling it every time i think about it, and vow to buy it back at some point.

    the cs always seemed to me to be the modern counterpart to the f40 in terms of feel and rawness.

    from a value standpoint the cs, even though it was built separately and had a lot of bespoke parts to it, it was based on the 360, and is and always will be viewed as a subset of the 360. whereas the f40, even though we know it is derived through a long evolution from the 308, is a distinct shape and car from everything else.
     
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  14. flat_plane_eddie

    flat_plane_eddie Formula 3
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    I'm curious how the changing demographics are affecting the market for these cars. I can see younger buyers going for the newer stuff since they have a warranty and require less maintenance. Not to mention it's what's current.
     
  15. henryr

    henryr F1 World Champ
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    and they cant drive stick
     
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  16. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS Formula Junior
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    The F40 is more an evolution of the 288GTO and the GTO Evoluzione, and a darn good one.
     
  17. rumen1

    rumen1 Formula Junior
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    Owners always think that their cars are worth more than they really worth. This is what my experiense as a seller is showing :D

    The F40 is one of the best cars ever made, but I don't see it to go up in value any further.
     
  18. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
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    Give it another 5/10 years ..the 288 GTO was a bit of a sleeper for some time too.
     
  19. rumen1

    rumen1 Formula Junior
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    Yes, but the 288 is a much rarer car. All cars were much cheaper 10 years ago. In the past several years they have grown too much I guess and actually the bubble softened a little bit in the last year, so I don't think anything, except the really low limited production cars will go any more up in value.
     
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  20. italiafan

    italiafan F1 Veteran

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    These topics are always tautological: the market IS the price, it sets itself and by definition isn’t “wrong.”
     
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  21. cnpapa24

    cnpapa24 F1 Rookie
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    Are you saying nothing can ever be undervalued? I don’t agree with this at all. There are many reasons why things can be undervalued otherwise things would always stay at that same price.
     
  22. italiafan

    italiafan F1 Veteran

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    I am.
    You are adding the dimension of time.
    The value is set by the market at and for that current time.

    To say something is “undervalued” is just a euphemistic statement for “I believe this object will be more desirable at some point in the future.”
    ...but it is still correctly valued for that time.

    Splitting hairs I know, but the market can’t “lie.”
     
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  23. luigisayshello

    luigisayshello Karting

    Jul 9, 2014
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    Of course the market lies and quite a lot. In the collectibles world it lies as much as it has to until someone makes a lie, truth.
    The ammount of collectibles that were sold between friends or even the same group of companies for ridiculous prices is not low at all, especially on record prices.
    Then the same group happened to have hoarded the exact same collectible before the 'record breaking value' and what was rare now appear out of the bushes.
     
  24. joe sackey

    joe sackey Four Time F1 World Champ
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    No it doesn't.

    The market 'lies' to buyers & sellers who don't want to believe what the market is telling them because that's not what they want to hear based on whatever their agenda or perspective is.

    The market is not a matter of buyers or sellers subjective opinions, it is a matter of accumulated statistical data based on sold results.
     
  25. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Markets aren't usually perfectly efficient or inefficient, somewhere in-between. The more efficient, the more likely an accurate market price. Do the experts calling out "well bought" or "well sold" at inefficient auctions mean nothing? Are some specific collectibles including car models susceptible to market manipulation, certainly. The market always corrects itself, but it doesn't mean certain parties don't get caught in a "correcting" phase.
     

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