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The JayF/Cliffbeer chest beating thread (split from Newman's 308 thread)

Discussion in '308/328' started by JAYF, Aug 20, 2009.

  1. JAYF

    JAYF Formula 3

    May 13, 2006
    1,140
    Westchester, NY
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    Jay
    Funny, I am one of those guys that cant understand why someone would "waste" 150K on a 246gts, when esentially the car is a glorified fiat and it doesnt even have Ferrari badging. But to your point-there is an azz for every seat.
     
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  3. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

    Apr 3, 2005
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    Cliff
    #2 CliffBeer, Aug 21, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    If you know your Fiat and Ferrari history then you know that the "glorified Fiat" is, in fact, the Fiat Dino of 1966-1973. Having owned one of these I can assure you that it is indeed a Fiat through and through, but a very nice car nevertheless. The 246 is quite a different car - very similar engine, yes, but everything else is 100% Ferrari with much better quality engineering and materials and fit and finish. There's no comparison. If you've spent time with a 246, worked on it, drove it, really gotten to know it (and also have spent time with contemporary Fiats) then you wouldn't make a silly suggestion that it's a Fiat.
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  4. JAYF

    JAYF Formula 3

    May 13, 2006
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    Jay
    Cliff, you are certainly entitled to your OPINION, but at the end of the day, that is all it is. The fact is the dino was a cheaper line set up through Ferrari, however it technically wasn't a Ferrari(if it was it would have been called one). Spending time with both those cars and many other early Ferrari's, I can honestly say the fit and finish of many pre-80's Ferraris left a lot to be desired.
     
  5. Nurburgringer

    Nurburgringer F1 World Champ

    Jan 3, 2009
    10,615
    Texass
    If that's so then our beloved 308's are also Fiats. Because under the skin Dino's and 308's are basically identical.

    BTW - I'm of the camp that can't fathom spending 4-5 times more on a Dino than a 308. Same chassis, smaller engine (which may be your thing, sure), curvier body, $100k more?
    Who cares about badging. It's a simple matter of driving enjoyment per $ for me.
     
  6. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

    Apr 3, 2005
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    Cliff
    Jay, how very kind of you to remind me that was merely my own opinion I was expressing. I had somehow forgotten that was the case!

    Now, if you knew how attached Enzo was to Dino, do you really think Enzo thought he would honor his deceased son by putting his name on a "cheap" Ferrari? No. It didn't not say Ferrari on the badge because it was cheap.
     
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  8. JAYF

    JAYF Formula 3

    May 13, 2006
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    Jay
    Good to know you were a personal friend of Enzo and knew his innermost thoughts. Stop straying away from my origianl point, which was I personally dont feel the dino is worth 100k based on what I stated. If you do great-cough up the 125-150 and go buy one and enjoy it. Enough said on the topic!

    Good luck to Newman on his sale, I hope he gets what he wants. He certainly deserves it with the amount of time and energy he has put into the car.
     
  9. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

    Apr 3, 2005
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    Cliff
    Jay, you don't have to be a personal friend of Enzo to know the relevant background here - you just have to be able to read and remember some Ferrari history when your eyeballs roll across the page. You'd be advised to do a little more reading and a little less talking.

    As to dino pricing, apparently the market (ie. everyone else) thinks otherwise. It might occur to you to engage the grey matter and wonder why that is, but it seems that's not your style.
     
  10. JAYF

    JAYF Formula 3

    May 13, 2006
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    Jay
    Still missing the point, however based on your juvenile writings, I am not surprised.
     
  11. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

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    #9 CliffBeer, Aug 23, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2009
    Only person missing something is you. Give it a rest little man.
     
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  13. JAYF

    JAYF Formula 3

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    #10 JAYF, Aug 23, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2009
    You can stop embarrassing yourself now.

    Thanks to the mods for such a great thread title how creative and inaccurate you are. To be really correct you should probably move this to a different section as well.
     
  14. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

    Apr 3, 2005
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    Cliff
    Look Jay, you and I don't like eachother, that's clear. How about we spare everyone else here the unpleasant dialog and just agree not to communicate in any manner? Does that sound reasonable?
     
  15. lostbowl

    lostbowl Formula 3

    Apr 30, 2009
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    Tom
    Yikes! Come on guys , a little class here! " Different strokes for different folks"
     
  16. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,341
    #13 finnerty, Aug 24, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2009
    Hey Cliff & Jay ----

    I just put in a call to President Obama (he's a longtime buddy.....as we were both born in the same village in Kenya :p) -----

    And, he is willing to fly you both out to DC to have a beer with him.....:)
     
  17. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

    Apr 3, 2005
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    Cliff
    Agreed. Hopefully Jay and I can agree to just ignore eachother.

    Finnerty, that'd be an interesting conversation over a beer - I'd have to accept! By the way, any chance your mom was in the room as a witness when he was being born (in that Kenyan village)???
     
  18. klatu

    klatu Formula Junior

    Apr 13, 2009
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    Rob Mckinney
    OK, you two kids, out of the sand box and go stand in the corner.

    GEEEEEEEEZ.


    You can like anything you want and I applaud your right to do so.

    Rob
     
  19. AHudson

    AHudson F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 7, 2005
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    Adams Hudson
    Shockingly, aside from the couple of points that got WAY off track, you guys probably have more in common that you have as differences.

    One of these days, you'll be reading the 'other guy's' thread and think, "Wow, I actually kind of agree with him on that" and at that point, this other will evaporate. We look forward to that occasion, no kidding.
     
  20. Helmut

    Helmut Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2004
    635
    you guys got me interested in this debate. Wikipedia has an interesting article on it:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dino_(car)

    Who knows how correct they are but it makes sense in a way. So I guess our 308's are sort of in between Dino's and Ferraris if you consider their origin.
    It definitely shows several reasons for why the Dino series was created and why Fiat made engines for the 6 cylinder models etc.
    Eventually it looks like they reliased that the 246 and the 308 were big successes and that they could make even more money by calling them Ferraris.

    Helmut
     
  21. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    20,700
    Fullerton, California
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    Jon
    If I started the chest beating, I think I should at least get the thread co-named in my co-honor. :mad:

    Not sure we're allowed to agree in this thread or be civil, but hypothetically if we were I would say you make a good point.

    Also, as much as I think the 246s are classic, I think the 308/328 is in some ways a handsomer car. (I would still give the edge to the 246, but the 308/328 surpasses it in some areas.)

    The 308/328 are great value, especially considering the 246 market.
     
  22. Helmut

    Helmut Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2004
    635
  23. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    20,700
    Fullerton, California
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    Jon
    I think it was the 308 GT4 not selling that killed the Dino brand. The 246 sold well. The re-badging, AFAIK, was done by owners, not dealers.

    By the time the Pininfarina-designed 308 arrived, the Dino brand had been buried and the cars were produced entirely in the Ferrari factory.
     
  24. Helmut

    Helmut Formula Junior

    Dec 11, 2004
    635

    Did Fiat ever make other parts for the Dino series besides the 6 cyl. engine?

    The article says: "In 1966 Ferrari wished to race in the 1.6 L class of the Formula 2 racing series with Dino's V6. However, the company could not meet the homologation rules which called for 500 production vehicles using the engine" that supposedly was the reason for them to ask Fiat to make those engines and the Fiat Dino therefore used the same engine.

    All 8 cyl Dinos were made by Ferrari it sounds like.

    Helmut
     
  25. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,341
    Tragically, my mother was trampled by a rogue elephant immediately following my birth, which left her with temporary amnesia --- so, no. This also induced me into becoming a life-long Democrat. Ironically, several years later while vacationing in Hawaii, I was kicked severely by the donkey I was riding on a wilderness tour.

    Ever since then, I haven't voted :)
     

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