The official MP4-12C Thread

more info all the time now,thats good,wish id specced them now,but thats the problem of an early car,Still confusing though,as the option is still quite expensive if you think that it is on top of the standard brakes,as the extra cost cannot just be for the calipers if the rotors and pads are so cheap,so there must be a sustantial reworking of the mounting to make up for the extra cost

 

Well there is the extra cooling parts that are required for the CCBs, too. My understanding is that those extra parts are what account for the total weight of the CCB option being more than the standard brakes.

 

The carbon brake technology and cost has improved so much in the last 8 years but those are spectacular prices. After two track days in my panamera the carbon rotors showed absolutely no sign of wear. I am confident that if that car was never tracked it would not need rotors over it's lifetime.

I assume the McLaren carbons are made by AP as well? AP has a habit of only supplying OEM spec parts to the OEM and therefor that drives up the price a bit. What bothers me about the steel rotors is that they can become warped, just slightly, with heavy usage and with direct air ducting. I have done it to several sets of AP drilled rotors. Also, why didnt they choose a slotted steel rotor? Drilled rotors provide uneven wear and weak spots that lead to cracking.

Not sure I can be talked out of the carbons on the 12C.

 

Yes, just a bit less so.

 

Yes, it is expensive, but if you track it sufficiently, it would be cheaper long term. CCB's will last 5 times longer on the track. Steel rotors will be maybe half the price of CCB's. Within a couple of years, CCB's will pay for themselves.

 

Think the CCBs on the 12C are Brembo. Standard steel rotors are AP Racing.

 

Sounds great, but you have to remember one thing: CCB rotors will not show any visible wear till they fail. You cannot tell wear by looking at them.

 

Phillip knows what he's doing....things would be better if he were running McLaren NA vs at a dealership. The guys who will be working with Miller Motorcars will likely get a better overall experience starting early in the process because Phillip know how to sell high-end cars and is passionate about the cars he sells....not just selling a commodity. Kudos to him for getting back to folks in a timely manner as questions are being asked. Would be good if the entire operation ran that way. He probably knows more about the car than most US-based McLaren folks....probably more than most folks period. He is a consummate professional and all around car guy. He was sales manager for Aston Martin inthe DC area and did a great job for them. And he's owned some cool cars himself. Anyway, yes, I do like that level of customer service.

 

Oh, LOL! I was actually referring to the low cost of the CCB parts, as it appears McLaren is attempting to keep prices reasonable for owners, which in itself is an element of customer service. But thanks for the reply!

 

Well, yeah, THAT is good as well.

But honestly, at this level, whining (and I know something about whining after all !!!) about the cost of almost anything associated with the car is sort of silly. While we all certainly love a bargain, if one can truly afford the car, the cost of replacement parts is just an annoyance, isn't it? It's not like you won't be able to send your kid to college because of the cost of the parts or will have to troll the low price gas stations to fill the tank.

But, yes, it is excellent to hear that the prices appear more reasonable than similar parts costs at Ferrari or Porsche. Speaking of which, I was out at FoW yesterday (getting the state inspection for the F430...that's all) and I've never seen so much pre-owned inventory in that showroom....it's packed with 430's (all versions) and 599's with many of them on consignment so if anyone wants "a bargain" while waiting for their MP4-12C, head on down to your local Ferrari dealer.

 

Caution - review SPOILER

Flicking thru April issue of Automobile at airport mag stand... Chalk up yet another "best ever", Jamie Kitman says "it's the greatest supercar I've ever driven."

Summarizes with "The 12C is in fact lighter, lower, shorter and narrower than the 458 Italia. Perfectly tractable around town and not at all painful to pass hours in, it could certainly be a daily driver like an Audi R8 or a Porsche 911, and it's certainly up to long distance road trips, although i doubt my my license could withstand any of these scenarios. All I know is that McLaren has won. The MP4-12C does everything, which, in any language, is the only thing."

Would relay more, but I don't buy the US rags any more.

 

Not sure what the exhaust? http://www.flickr.com/photos/iammarwood/5532154435/

 

Sounds like you are correct. Two heat exhangers for the intercooler fluid are mounted on each side of the front.

http://www.evo.co.uk/videos/planetevovideos/242317/mclaren_mp412c.html

Based on this pic the air/water intercoolers are mounted directly above the turbos in the engine bay. This certainly provides for reduced pressure drop and good throttle response/less lag. I wonder if the intercoolers are also cooled with some of the air from the side pods?

 

they cost 22 pounds (weight), for those curious enough.

 

Re parts prices in general I agree. However with CCB rotors being a consumable (for track use), it's a pretty big deal to have them so relatively inexpensive compared to Porsche, Ferrari, et al. Certainly makes it more palatable to enjoy the other benefits of CCB, which I think is great for customers that otherwise might not select the option.

 

I second that motion. The cost of pads and replacement rotors is very high for my scud. If you seriously track it (say 20-40 track days a year), annual brake costs alone (rotors and pads) will run you 40k-50k. A couple years of that, and the running costs will rival the cost of a new car. I have not even mentioned the tires.

Keeping the costs so low is a major coup for McLaren and makes the choice of the car over Italia (which will really eat its brakes and tires with the extra weight) a no-brainer for anybody who wants to seriously track their car.

Again, Phillip is confirming no weight gain from federalization.

 

If you are doing 20-40 track days a year I would lean far more towards a race/track day car, but that may ruin your desire to track sports cars. A few drives in my Radical and it made my sports car feel like a bus.

 

I drove open wheelers at a track several times (also did both Skippy schools in open wheelers). I like sports cars better.

 

Which track(s) do you frequent?

 

This may help to explain the cost efficientcy of the carbon ceramics.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/06/02/brembo-aims-to-mass-produce-carbon-ceramic-brakes-with-new-joint/

 

NJMP, Lime Rock, Monticello, PBIR, Nordschleife.

 

Does anyone else get annoyed by the clicking of the paddles when changing gear? It sounds like a computer mouse clicking, it's really noticeable to me. I personally wouldn't want that on the final car. Thoughts? Maybe this was discussed and I missed it

 

I am loving this thread for all the info coming from the regulars, far better than McLarenlife .... I must admit I haven't been commenting too much, but I can't help but agree with Falb that 20-40 track days per year is over doing it for a road car, I am doing maybe 4-5 a year in my Scuderia & did 6-7 per year before in my first 430 & just found it was incredibly hard & ageing on the cars.

I am about to do exactly what Falb has done, buy a Radical SR3 RS & then go to the track 10-12 times per year at a fraction of the cost compared to running my Ferrari that often. I have test driven the Radical a few times now, which really is a sports car, not quite the same as an open wheeler and it is simply awesome on track, built for track and easy to drive. The servicing, maintenance & repairs are a fraction of the Ferrari cost.

I still intend to do 1-2 specific Ferrari Club track days in the Scud after getting the Radical & will also do a couple per year in the 12C if I proceed with it, but IMO a dedicated track car is the way to go if you are doing that type of track mileage in a road car.

The 12C sounds just amazing & I want it as a daily driver and very occasional track car, although I suspect once I'm driving the Radical regularly, the Scud or 12C will seem as Falb says ....... a little like a truck on track

What type of Radical do you have Falb, how often do you run it.... race or just track days? Here in Australia they have a brilliant ownership support arrangement, arrive & drive, track days, races, corporate days, very good business model IMO, I suspect it is the same Radical model the world over.

Sorry for getting a little off topic

 

^^ Agreed. This thread is the best source of info to date. Thanks to all of those that have put time and energy into it. I am ordering a 12C and I am sure I will get more info from here than elsewhere. I am not a Ferrari owner which is why I didn't register before.

As far as the Radical goes, it is an SR3RS 1500. We have a nice setup at Spring Mountain with over 80 cars on site and 20-40 guys racing them during member weekends. I got it to race in spec SR3 and couldn't be more happy. It is so fun, fast, and ready to race right out of the box.

I also have a Rossion Q1 that is now track focused and gets to take the brunt of my sports car track duties.

The 12C will get some track time but I suspect fairly little. The cars do get torn up and weaknesses become obvious. For example, the 12C has an air to water intercooler, how fast will that system heat soak in the desert on a race course and the computer pulls 80 hp to keep the internals safe? Won't know till it is tried and hopefully McLaren solved for it already. Plus I assume that the warranty will have a carve out for track duty so it will be advisable to let any known issues get worked out before going too crazy. Again, it would be great if they decided to make a track version ala Porsche Cup, for us track junkies.

 

Do you mean that the rotor will retain the same thickness and then fail? My understanding is that they will reach a minimum thickness and then need replacing. I have not seen a ceramic rotor fail unless the pad failed or either pad/rotor went below minimum thickness.