The official replica/re-creation thread

I'll let the good folks over at "Picture Us" and the gift shop of the Art Institute know. I'm sure they feel the same way.

And no, I don't have art prints on my walls either. But it is hugely common.

 

Exellent!

 

Nearly 20 years ago, at a local car show, I saw what I thought was a Cobra replica among the displayed cars. Looking closer, I noticed a hand written sign on a piece of cardboard propped on the windshield. It said "Aluminum body. Please do not lean on car." The car was an original. And it looked like it had been sitting in a barn for a while. Dirty carpets. Grass and weeds tracked into the floor boards. Empty Coca Cola cans lying inside. But it was real. No velvet ropes for it. I should have made an offer!

So, if I hang a PRINT of a photograph of a famous Ferrari on my wall,....I am pathetic?

 

i don't understand why anyone would buy a replica as well.
but i would never try and force my own beliefs on others as being superior to their own!

that need i understand even less than why someone would buy a replica!

 

ok mans.

Horsefly, you are not pathetic, and we know that you love Ferrari like everybody here.

 

I don't see it as a belief. People building replicas do wrong twice: an original car is converted into something it isn't and another car needing care is left to rot away. If these people chose to restore a real car they can afford, they might end up with something genuine and some respect! I would (and will!) rather drive a Lancia Flaminia Touring Coupe (personal choise) than a fake Ferrari Berlinetta, simply because that would be a better car and a genuine piece of motoring history. Something I could be proud of. Best wishes, Kare

 

So if I find a 250 GTE frame rotting away in a junk yard somewhere, I'm NOT supposed to have any fun making the car into a fantasy GTO spyder or an LWB spyder replica? What should I do when I find this frame in a junk yard,...let it continue to rust away? Or maybe I should buy it and resell it to somebody with a GTE that has a rusted frame? But why can't that person REPAIR his rusty frame instead of wasting ANOTHER frame to repair his car? Or maybe I could find a GTE BODY and install it on my rusty GTE frame and build a "mongrel" car with no real heritage or identity. And maybe I could find a Ferrari V12 engine somewhere and install it in my "mongrel".

And then the restorers would complain because I "wasted" a V12 on a mongrel car.

 

Maybe it is wise to let go at some point. Best wishes, Kare

 

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with a replica as long as it is clearly presented as a replica. To me a Favre conversion of a 250 GTE into a "GTO" is a shame since I like 250 GTE's (after all, it is a genuine F car build by the factory) but it is ok to me to call the car "a 250 GTE converted to GTO specifications" while the car keeps its old GTE serialnumber. Of course it is wise to keep track of these replicas in case someone one day decides to sell it as real instead of replica.

Any attempt to "recreate" an existing serialnumber transforms a replica into a forgery and is punishable by law. So far the whole issue is really straightforward for me, but it is the gray area where I get confused. How much of an original car must survive to call it a the same car and what parts are needed for this (serial number stamped in chassis only???). The factory has stated their view on this in their certification and authentification program; but do all experts agree on this?

 

I agree. HOWEVER, and I say it again and again and again:
Many (not all) replica owners do NOT present their replica as a replica, and that's where the problem continues. It begins that genuine Ferraris are being used as donor cars for replica production.
Marcel Massini

 

Brocket's not really a good example as he was unaware that alot of his cars werent what they seemed to be (his right hand man was notorious for taking kick backs from dealers wanting to sell an overpriced car)

 

Completely disagree. The good Lord B was VERY WELL AWARE what his cars were or were not. I have met the man twice at his estate and also at Pebble Beach later and have personally been asked by him HOW to make his 212 Vignale Coupé (0239 EU) better or even make it into a 250 MM which it was clearly NOT. I also got faxes and calls from him. I still have that documentation, of course.
At his estate on 28 July 1990 he showed me 340 America #0138 AM, which originally had been a lovely Vignale Cabriolet, and told me HOW it had been "improved" and made into a race car.
Below are four photographs showing 0138 AM before and after the modifications by Brocket. I took the first two (color) shots at ElkhartLake/WI in July 1985, during the Chicago historic races, organised by the late Joe Marchetti. At that time Jerry J. Seavey of Northbrook/IL owned 0138 AM and the car was still pretty original. Only the bumpers were missing and it was typically painted re-sale red. No big deal to have it repainted, of course. Marchetti tried to sell 0138 AM and gave me the car for a ride (from Elkhart Lake to Chicago). The car later ended up with Lord Charles Brocket in England (October 1988). In 1989 prices for rare Ferraris peaked, until January 1990, and then the collapse began.
I took the second two (black-white) photos below at Brocket Hall in July 1990. By that time Brocket had already began to customize 0138 AM extensively. A big air scoop was added to the hood, the recessed and chromed air outlets in the front fenders were gone, rows of air slots had been added to the fenders instead, both front and rear, and the chromed grille was gone and the opening had been altered heavily. Foglights had been added as well.
The rest of the history of 0138 AM is very well known. It became one of the cars which Brocket had cut up in pieces for an insurance scam (April 1991). The original Vignale Cabriolet body was virtually destroyed. Brocket was sentenced and served some time in jail. Later on he published his biography "Call me Charlie!". As for 0138 AM the remnants were found and a entirely new FANTASY racing spider body was built by RS Panels in England. The rebodied 0138 AM returned back to USA and went thru a a series of owners.
But I think this thread is about complete replicas and fakes and I do not consider 0138 AM in its current form as a replica. Rather an extensively customized Ferrari with a complete rebody. Another significant historic Ferrari ruined forever.
The case of 250 GT SWB #3565 GT and the replica is different, however.
ALL PHOTOS COPYRIGHT MARCEL MASSINI
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Marcel

Thanks’ for your response, in my opinion by the fact that he a) had to ask you b) the mess he made of 0138 would indicate that while he knew what sort of car he had, he ultimately didn’t have the experience or knowledge to fake the cars he had to the extent that an "expert" would be completely fooled by it. Either way a man of very dubious morals and taste

 

Completely agreed.
Marcel Massini

 

Don t forget that Modena is still the place today where most of the replicas are built, SWB, GTO, Spyder,250 LM everythings can be built there.
And as Modena a just next to the factory, we can assume that Ferrari don t really care

 

Marcel

I really applaud your efforts to document the truth about all of these cars. MANY cars have been accepted as something that they are not and it is people like you that are responsible for reminding everyone that the truth is often something different than what's sitting on the lawn or racing at Vintage events.

I think much of the vitriol directed at me is due to the fact that unlike some I have offered up EVERYTHING I believe to be true as well as pointing out why I believe it and have invited anyone to investigate/refute my findings for themselves something not everyone has done.

I am flattered that you, who unlike others have very carefully physically inspected my car, call what I've done a "Resurrection" (Bringing Back From The Dead) as opposed to a "Replica" (Replicating) but must go on record and state that the only time I can walk on water is when it's frozen.

Best

 

I do think that the Ferrari factory DOES now finally care about replica production. After all, they have invented their certification and authentification program with their Ferrari Classiche departement. However, replicas of Ferraris are being produced ALL OVER THE WORLD, not only in Modena. There is a real manufacturing and production line in Argentina (cheap labour). And a few weeks ago I saw in Fort Lauderdale/FL a replica of a 340 America Coupé Vignale being built. This brand new replica does absolutely resemble the 1951 Mille Miglia winning chassis #0082 A (owned by Jack V. Croul in Corona del Mar/CA since 15 October 1999) but is being built on the chassis of a 1965 Ferrari 330 GT 2+2 (donor car) with the 4-liter motor.
Once again, it is absolutely important to fully document every minute of a Ferrari's life, with paperwork, documents, and as many photographs as possible. And the factory certification is a MUST too. One day it will all be needed to prove in case of a problem or questions.
Marcel Massini

 

Whywalk when you have 2 of the most beautiful cars ever?

 

If the factory care, why they will not stop all the body shops in Modena or Cuneo.
I was there last week in Modena and it s impossible to believe it if you don t see it.
They are building SWB, GTO, California like a factory !
Make a stop to Ferrari Shop ( not the factory ) at Modena and I saw a 330 P under construction !

Philippe Olczyk

 

Here's a photo showing the Lord Brocket REPLICA 250 GT SWB Berlinetta using chassis number 3565 GT for a certain time. That was in June 1992. The REAL 3565 GT at that time was owned by Thierry Mieg in Strasbourg, France, but apparently the builders of the replica didn't know that and therefore used the "available" (free) number 3565 GT for their replica. The replica SWB apparently was sold as a real, genuine and authentic 250 GT SWB Berlinetta to a major U.S. collector. I understand that the good Lord B got an additional jail time for this fraud. The real 3565 GT was sold in June 1995 from France to a private individual in Darmstadt, Germany. The replica SWB (using 3565 GT) was sold in March 1997 from USA to a Swiss living in Belgium and was re-numbered and re-legalized with a 250 GTE chassis number.
Marcel Massini
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I like the photo, as I bought this car from Seattle 10 years ago ( advertise in Ferrari Market Letter ).
I bought it as a replica but the previous owner who have bought it as real paid 750 $ for it. When I receive the car in San Diego, the car still have the fake chassis number and the fake plate. I then sold it to Europe as a replica, but at the airport the car was size by the US customs as they didn t understand that if the car was a replica, why a real number was on it !
After clarification, a new number from the DMV was put on the car to be export and the car arrive in Europe WITHOUT any Ferrari number on it ( not even the 250 GTE number who was the donor car )
After the car appear at Monaco auction

Philippe Olczyk

 

Look like that somebody put a 250 GTE number on the car but the car arrive in Europe without any Ferrari chassis number , it was a DMV Los Angeles chassis number on it ( very long number )

Olczyk

 

Yes, when the replica arrived in Europe it had a long DMV LA number. The next European owner then went thru a long and complicated process to re-establish the real identity of the car and it was found that the donor car had been a 250 GTE and therefore the old GTE number was used again. It cost thousands of US dollars to re-legalize this car.
Marcel Massini

 

Here are photos showing a real replica of a 275 P Spider, built by an Italian company. Pix taken in 2003. As can be seen THIS car is a honest replica because the manufacturer (Carrozzeria Sonnino in Busto Arsizio near Varese) attached a special chassis plate clearly identifying this car as a replica. Hopefully nobody ever removes this plate and the owners will always represent the car as a replica. The car does use a 275 GTB engine with an engine number filed off (the internal number was left and is 710/64). Interesting to see that the chassis plate manufacturer was "allowed" to use the black Prancing Horse and the special word "Ferrari" with the long "F" on their chassis plate.
COPYRIGHT MARCEL MASSINI
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Marcel,
i guess from your lofty position you have formed your opinion so I for one appreciate your views, but who is there at the Ferrari factory today that has the knowledge of a Sheehan, Renwick, Pourret, or your good self to form opinions on the old cars?

I guess that is my biggest sticking point with the whole programme.