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The official replica/re-creation thread

Discussion in 'Recreations & Non-Period Rebodies' started by WILLIAM H, Mar 18, 2004.

  1. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    34,891
    Victory Circle
    Full Name:
    HUBBSTER
    Doing some research to see what I can expect if I decide to buy 1 of these beasties. I think it would be Ultra Cool to do rallies in a 57 pontoon TR or a 59 TR. If I decide to get one I'll have them add disc brakes, a roll bar , & AC
     
  2. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 11, 2003
    5,971
    Central NJ
    There is a really cool one in england based on a 400 2+2, there is a thread somewhere on ferrarichat. Much less expensive, more modern V12 doner. I've seen wrecked 400's for 7.5 - 15k on ebay.

    Good luck,

    Art S.
     
  3. tritone

    tritone F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 8, 2003
    4,839
    On the Rock
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    James
    just a suggestion: first do some research to make sure that the rally organisers will accept your car, (along with your money); some will not accept a "replica" in their events. And, not all vintage racing organisers will allow those cars on track either. I finally gave up on a mouth-watering Cal spyder copy because too many people said "probably not". good luck tho!
     
  4. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Nov 20, 2003
    13,340
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Full Name:
    Matt F
    Exotic Cars Wholesale is selling GTE s/n 4003 which was rebodied by Favre.

    I know that the car has been posted here before. I also REALLY don't want to start a debate over the legitimacy of replicas. I'm posting because I'm looking for specific information on s/n 4003.

    I couldn't find anything on Barchetta.cc, or anywhere else. Does anyone know anything more about this car? In particular, does Exotic Cars Wholesale currently own the car, or are they selling it on consignment? Does anyone know who's owned this mystery car?

    I'd ask Exotic Cars Wholesale directly, but they don't have a particularly strong reputation, at least based on my search of the Ferrarichat archives.

    Thanks in advance,

    Matt
     
  5. UroTrash

    UroTrash Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Jan 20, 2004
    33,220
    Purgatory
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    Internet Poseur

    Be careful what you post, there seem to be a lot of tattletales on F-chat.
     
  6. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    1,291
    S.W. England
    Full Name:
    Paul S.
    Was 'surfing' this afternoon and came across this:
    http://www.karreramotorsports.com/classified/330_Ferrari_P4_Replica.html
    It's the same Norwood P4 replica - chassis #2, orginally built for Dr. Bill Gordon of Dallas, TX.,
    previously mentioned in this older Ferrarichat thread:http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/251280/240745.html
    Checking back through RM's auction results from Houston, May 2003, it seems that it sold for a mere $98.4K (compared to the original early 90's price of $375K). Wonder what the asking price is now?
     
  7. msdesignltd

    msdesignltd F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 17, 2003
    10,915
    NYC. / E. Hampton
    Full Name:
    Michael

    YOU might want to look at this
    http://www.bobnorwood.com/Norwood%20Story.htm
     
  8. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    1,291
    S.W. England
    Full Name:
    Paul S.
    Thanks. Been there a while ago. Talked to Bob. He was quite helpful, too.
    Here's another Norwood P4 replica that ECW sold back last January (2003):
    http://www.exoticcarworld.com/images/sale/Ferrari/P4/P4.htm This one was #6 of the series of 8 cars,
    - originally built for Dr. Allen Meril (also of Dallas, Tx.) and has a Batten billet V-12 with TestaRossa heads.
     
  9. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    1,291
    S.W. England
    Full Name:
    Paul S.
    Those of you that follow the various P4 related threads will, no doubt, remember the ‘Poor man’s P4 replica project' thread, started by ‘Horsefly’ at the beginning of February. See:
    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7514&page=1&pp=20
    It concerned, initially, the build-up of a Foreman P4 replica kit, powered by a Ferrari 348 V-8, whose owner, Mark Collins (a regular UK FerrariChat contributor) was documenting the build-up on his website: http://www.collinsclan.co.uk/Pages/Cars/P4/P4.html
    Unfortunately, like most P4-related threads it ended up going down ‘the #0846 argument rathole’. Blame me !
    Anyway, Mark carried on documenting the build (remarkably, completed in under a year), on his website, and a friend of his posted some beautiful photos of the finished car, taken on its initial shakedown run at: http://www.stevecarter.com/hullavington04/mark.htm

    All that remained was the dreaded SVA (EU single vehicle type approval) test, which the car passed on May 26th. Mark then posted off the documentation to the DVLA, and was waiting impatiently for his registration documents, so he could take the car on the road. Another track day came up on Monday 7th June, at Keevil Aerodrome, and, as he still hadn’t received his paperwork back from the DVLA, Mark decided to take his car along and give it some more exercise (the car was intended predominately for track day use, anyway).

    Well, sadly, I have to report - Mark’s P4 replica is no more. Unfortunately something broke on the car, which caused an oil leak, and started a fire. Mark only had a ‘hand-held’ extinguisher, and the fire took hold very quickly. By the time the track marshals arrived, the car was virtually burned out – a total loss. Nothing survived. Apparently, the fire was so intense that 3 out of the 4 wheels and even the 348’s heads melted. Needless to say, Mark is absolutely gutted – a year’s hard work and probably something like $65K went up in flames that day.
    Worse still, Mark suspects that his insurance will not cover it either – so it becomes a very sad loss indeed.

    I asked Mark, last night if he intended to write something on FerrariChat about it – by means of a ‘postscript’ – He said he really didn’t feel like doing it, understandably – and told me to go ahead. No doubt, a few of you will have already heard ‘through the grapevine’. So, I just thought we could use this thread (rather than sending him emails and PM’s), to offer our sincere commiserations to Mark on the loss of his pride and joy. And PLEASE - no comparisons or analogies to #0846 - Mark deserves better than that !

    Hopefully, at some point in the future, he can find enough enthusiasm to build another, one day – which will be even better than his last ….
     
  10. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Honorary

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Mark and Katy recently came over to visit. It was really great meeting them and talking about our cars. I had followed his build for years and his car was very impressive and a lot of Love had gone into it.
    This is very sad.
    There is a thread that touches on car fire's and fire systems. (Post 46)
    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17972
    I really think a good fire system should be installed on every track car and maybe even on any car that is going to be driven hard.
    The great news is that Mark wasn't hurt.
     
  11. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    1,291
    S.W. England
    Full Name:
    Paul S.
    Thanks for adding that, Jim - a careless ommission on my part. Sorry, Mark.
     
  12. macca

    macca Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2003
    676
    I'm very very sorry to hear of Mark's misfortune - I can't conceive of how he must be feeling after so much effort to see his pride and joy gone. My deepest commiserations to Mark, and I can only add how glad I am that he is OK himself.
     
  13. Wolfgang

    Wolfgang F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 8, 2003
    16,743
    Heidelberg, Germany
    Full Name:
    Wolfgang
    Dear Mark,

    my deepest sympathy. Oh my god what a losst!!!
    Happy to hear that you haven`t been hurt - the most important thing!
    I hope & wish that you will find again the power & love to rebuilt the most beautiful car (IMHO) Ferrari ever built.
    After I have had the pleasure & honor to see last weekend Jim`s P4 (thanks again Jim for your invitation, what a wonderful weekend-you are a class-act!) I`m also thinking about the idea to do something like you have done - respect!!!!

    ...get well soon

    Wolfgang
     
  14. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Lifetime Rossa

    Oct 3, 2002
    45,121
    @ the wheel
    Full Name:
    Andreas
    That is so sad, no good words come to mind.

    Mark, I hope time will help heal the wound.

    :(
     
  15. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    71,624
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    Man that is hard news!!!

    People think I'm nuts to carry TWO hand helds, but I also have had a shattered header fire that BARELY was put out by a single extinguisher.
    Once out, I drove a few blocks, loudly, and around the corner to park it.....at the Fire Station!!

    It was so early in the morning they were still sleeping!


    Sometimes it's better to own a boat.....when they burn, they sink!!!
     
  16. P 4 Staff

    P 4 Staff Rookie

    Feb 10, 2004
    1
    Mark....I have followed the building of your car...and I can´t beleive it´s gone. Now...I don´t know what happens with the steel-tubing in a fire like that. Would´nt it be possible to replace the coach-work...and build it up again?
    Thank God you´re okay.
    Just to encourage you...I forward a blueprint I made myself...for you to see how beautiful this car is. (as you should´nt know)
    P 4 Staff.
     
  17. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Mark,

    I'm gutted. I've built a race car and I know the massive effort required to get it completed ... and my car was just a simply club race car.

    Don't know what to say other than I am extremely glad you were not hurt.

    I had one of my biggest ever race accidents in the club car I built as I had a brake failure at the end of a back straight. Luckily it was a short club circuit but I still went off at I estimate over a 100 mph and was screaming over the grass straight at a bank and a wire fence with tall pine trees behind. Then all went dark, belts bit in and after what I remember as ages the car stopped and the dirt settled and I was about 1 foot from the bank. Amazingly somebody had installed a sand trap since I last raced there (or atleast I did not notice it before) and IMO this saved my life (I am a huge sand trap fan ...). The whole front of my car was broken (body work, etc.) and the car was fill of dirt right back to the rear axle ... but it was fixable. Luckily my brain kicked in afterwards on the trailering home and I realised that I must have a brake problem and we found that the sizing of the front master cylinder was way wrong causing instant lock up when the pads got up to temperature. I say this because in a race meeting before I went off at the end of a straight also (but was able to simply drive back on) and everybody laughed at me and blamed me for getting too excited about leading a race. I ofcourse denied that, but did not know what really went wrong... I made sure I spoke to some experts and then did a huge but careful test day ... and eventually problem solved and my confidence in the car came back.

    Give it time Mark, you will decide the right thing to do, ie. whether to rebuild, start over or find another option ... but whatever the direction nobody can take away from you the talent and obvious skills you must have for this sort of thing.

    Pete
     
  18. Tyler

    Tyler F1 Rookie

    Dec 19, 2001
    4,274
    dusty old farm town
    Full Name:
    Tyler
    Terribly sad. :(

    Just glad you're ok though as cars can be rebuilt.
     
  19. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,944
    Milton, Wash.
    Full Name:
    Jeff B.
    Mark should be very proud of the terrific job he did on that car. I really enjoyed reading about the build process and seeing the pictures.
     
  20. P4Racer

    P4Racer Rookie

    Dec 18, 2003
    28
    UK
    Full Name:
    max wakefield
    I had a fire in my car and marshals out it out in seconds. But my world was collapsing in jst those few moments it took to get it under control. I am so so sorry.

    Insurance should cover it, provided it was testing, and there was no timming device being used.

    Of course they willl say they are not paying but they will. Theres no reason why fire and theft aren't in place.

    If in doubt go to another broker, and ask them what would happen if in theory you took the car to the track on a trailor and.....

    if in doubt give me a ring

    Max
     
  21. P4Rookie

    P4Rookie Rookie

    Jun 15, 2004
    20
    So sorry to hear about Mark's car. Hard to take after all that personal time building her. I shall fit a full fire extinguisher on mine when she's ready in 2005.

    If Mark is wiiling to rebuild I know of another 348 engine available at a snip.
     
  22. etomcat

    etomcat Karting

    Jul 6, 2004
    230
    Hungary
    Full Name:
    Tamas Feher
    Can you tell me something about this alleged replica P4? I'd like history, true specs, etc. By the way, she was on display in a shopping mall in Budapest, Hungary in May 2004, along with nine Ferraris from www.interrace.de.

    Picture:
    http://www.dream-car.ch/Beitraege/GPMutschellen_04/IMG_0718.JPG

    According to web info she is a:
    Ferrari 330 P4 nachbau (1968)
    Licence plate: AG-10642-U
    driven by Roger Markwalder, Eggenwil, CH

    According to the info sheet shown at the exhibition she is:
    Car: Ferrari P4 (1969)
    Engine: 5474 ccm, 485 bhp, V-12
    Speed: 320kmph

    I think the engine specs is bogus. Huge powerplant for such a small chassis? is she really old? Year 1968/69 is only 20 months after the original ones were made.

    Thanks in advance, Faithfully: etomcat.
     
  23. P 4 Staff

    P 4 Staff Rookie

    Feb 10, 2004
    1
    I am posting this reply on behalf of my friend, Paul Skett (P4Replica) whose participation in this forum has been suspended for one month.
    In fact, it was Johannes Johnen (‘aha100’ on FerrariChat), another of Paul’s foreign correspondents, who first drew his attention to the existence of this car. Johannes (an avid MGB enthusiast) emailed him a link to a couple of photos of it that he had found on a Swiss MG owner’s club website. They were taken in a car park / piazza on the 2002 Mille Miglia Retro. With a little ‘detective work’, starting with the AG (Aargau) license plate, and including some help from the president of the Swiss De Tomaso club (who knew the car owner’s father), Paul was finally able to track the car down for his P4 replica register in 2003.

    The car, as you correctly stated, belongs to Roger Markwalder of Eggenwil, Switzerland. The photo in your link was taken at the Mutschellen GP, which is a small hillclimb event that takes place close to Roger’s home.

    The car is a Noble P4 Spyder that has been cosmetically enhanced with ‘faux’ riveting and other small details. It was originally built (possibly by Lee Noble, from the style of headrest pads and mirrors used, though more likely by Lee’s sub-contact builders Sienna Cars) in England in the late 80’s or early 90’s and shipped to Switzerland, where it was bought by Roger’s father, Willy Markwalder.

    The car is powered by a fuel injected 4,380 c.c. Rover V-8 and uses the ubiquitous Renault 25/30 transaxle.
    Paul has absolutely no idea why the car was described as such, although as the car was displayed in Hungary, it might possibly have been ‘dreamed up’ by the organisers of the display to attract (more) attention. Paul has sent Roger an email, asking him to comment on it.
    There are Noble and Foreman P4’s ‘out there’ with tuned 5.7 litre (V-8) power plants; some cars also have 4.8 litre Ferrari V-12’s, though why anyone should claim their car was this particular (5.4 litre) capacity escapes him.
    Again, Paul has no idea, but the first Noble P4’s were built in the late 80’s. Some may have taken their ‘identities’ from donor cars, but again these would usually be from the early 80’s, so Paul cannot comment.
     
  24. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Owner Miami 2018

    Dec 1, 2000
    50,067
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    Some people don't learn, P 4 Staff is now banned for a month too.
     
  25. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
    Global Moderator Owner

    Nov 26, 2001
    23,402
    E ' ' '/ F
    Full Name:
    Yes, I have one

    What the hell?

    So now ANY discussion of ANY P4 replicas are banned simply because Jim's throwing legal threats around? Or are you just banning those who are on the 'wrong' side of the debate? There was NO mention of the other car in this post.
     

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