The official replica/re-creation thread

Certainly one can be sued for stating something that is true. The suit may fail, but it still must be defended.

And the 'truth' is often what the group with the most expensive lawyers determines it is, whether a murder trial or the provenance of antiques. A replica forum would not be in the best interests of Ferrarichat (the business), in my humble opinion. The only upside is that a few specific users would be appeased, and the downside could extend to the destruction of the board itself.

 

"a few specific users would be appeased"???
best to keep the secrets in the closet?

what about the possibility of increased collectibilty and value for the genuine article?

 

Discussions of disputed cars can remain in this forum, as they have for years. I have no desire to keep secrets - I don't even know any. I just don't want this board to be damaged or destroyed by someone with an agenda and an army of lawyers, which could certainly happen if a 'Replica' forum was created and used. It's simply not in Fchat's best interest to put itself in that position.

 

seems like the lawyers are increasingly becoming decision makers for everything

 

If cars that were absolutely indisputabley non Ferrari's (Fiberglass 250 GTO's built on Datsun chassis for example) were moved out of the Vintage section I really don't think it would be a bad thing or present any problems.

 

I fail to see the difference in a legal situation for FChat whether we have a replica forum or not. Cars with "difficult" provenance have been discussed on here before and so far I haven't seen any lawsuits against FChat for hosting their stories. After all none of the posts here reflect FChat's opinions but those of individuals (part of the user agreement when you sign up).
A replica forum would be a vessel for a lot of clear cut cases like e.g. this thread here, where the owner doesn't dispute its origin. Yet the public would get a chance to look up such a car for reference and interest.

I can understand that some people think having a replica forum could be detremental to Ferrarichat's reputation. OTOH ignoring these cars doesn't really help neither the community nor the marque. Whether people like it or not, replicas, rebodies, reconstructions etc. are a reality and are here to stay. In fact I'd even predict an increase in these cars. We have a chance to address them here. I don't think it would harm Ferrarichat's reputation but would increase its readership. Having a replica forum doesn't mean that Ferrarichat approves of replicas, but rather that it acknowledges their presence and deals with it.

 

Those cars are already moved to Off Topic, Cars etc. This thread, however, was started about a car that has at least some Ferrari content. If all comment on that car or a similar one was moved into a Replica forum, the owner could very well be vindictive enough to cause issues.

Correct, and an individual's post in that forum would most likely not be an issue. However, a moderator moving a thread/car reference into that forum could be taken as a comment on the authenticity of a car, and in the right hands be an issue.

 

On what basis please?

He is proud to have built the chassis and body himself from scratch. I don't think he is going to call it an original.

 

Please try to separate the individual case and the overarching issue. You're missing the point.

 

Let's say Jody sells his $17.000.000 stamp collection and buys a GTO. If a thread discussing his car is moved into the replica section (by a reason or another), do you think that alone might affect how market sees his car?

 

This is planet earth, let's play by our rules now!

 

strange reply

 

No. I realize your example is extreme (which is why it was also a bad example at that), but anyone in the market for a 250 GTO or a 288 GTO knows exactly where most of them are already. So whoopdee-fricking-doo if Jody's genuine car gets mislabeled by some internet chat room.

A better example would have been a less valuable car, say, a 360 replica. That might cause issues, but most of the less valuable cars get worse replica kits, which also mean they get worse in the looks department. It's like a simple graph really. That's without mentioning this board is full of amazing posters who are incredible wealth’s of information. Some of which have posted in this thread. These people know where a good percentage of the Ferraris ever built are located, as well as where most of the good replicas (that may happen to fool one or two people) are located as well.

So, no I can't see some Ferrari 360 or 328 owner throwing a money tantrum at an online board.

And I for one don't want to play by your rules because you seem to lack any sort of artistic expression or freedom, and that sounds like no fun.

 

What if his car may not be genuine? Remember the case of 1757GT as an example (the historic section of Barchetta.cc was closed for a long time). It doesn't matter that there seems to have been no case in the end; it takes the fun out of the game anyway.

Still there are many cars (chassis numbers to be exact) where nobody seems to be sure what is left of the original car. Many players (factory among them) are building records of which cars - as today - are genuine and original down to their mechanical components.

I am perfectly comfortable with this.

 

as far as i know 0812 + 0814 are built up at protauto. i think the pics show 0814 - right ?

 

Marco Baldi of Protauto in Sorbara near Modena.
Marcel Massini

 

Yes Baldi

 

Yesterday, I was at Modena and I confirm that I ve spoke with the man who have built the chassis of the car..It s new and if you want one, no problem, he will make one for you !

 

dear mr marcel massini, i started my affair with 'the old man's' machines in the 1950s back when road and track was a real mag and copies of autosport arrived late but every week from england.went to the races at thompson, lime rock and bridgehampton and then raced a morgan and an e-type inthe 60s. ran out of money, cut my hair and got a job. but am now back. for five years i owned a 328 gts in italy.just think about the italian scenery. walled hill towns, the food, and those windy mille miglia roads with no speed limits and doing it all in a ferrari. trust me, there isn't much that can equal that.well mr marcel massini seeing i don't have $1.8 mil i am building a 250 swb california repro. fortunately most of the tifosi i have met don't seem to have your attitude. i would suggest that if you want to keep this up you go to barret jackson and shell out $100 grans for a 1950s chevy impalla and go quietly into the sunset. we won't miss you. george

 

What is the 250 Calif based on? Your 328? At any rate, I'd like to see updates on your progress.

As far as Marcel is concerned: I'm glad (and proud) he is on Ferrarichat. Aside from his incredibly deep knowledge and archive he represents one position in the spectrum. I don't agree with him in regards to replicas, but that's not the point. The point is that a site like this lives from the diversity of opinions and users.

 

Is this a joke?

 

Ditto.

 

.
George,
Please, I ask that you at least, refrain from including me, in your announcements of general F-Chat membership sentiment. To me, it seems that you just don't have a handle on the concensus, unless the above statement was referring to you-and-yourself and I somehow misunderstood that. IMO, Marcel is a highly respected and valued contributor within these confines, and you sir, have stepped out onto a narrow plank with, I would think, little or no support.

Bill

 

He should've just used the words "I won't miss you." A person with only 8 posts and already speaking for FChat.. If he had said that, then to each his own. I for one don't really believe in replicas either, whether it be paintings, cars, clothes, watches, whatever. There's enough beauty in the world to go around to enjoy without a replica. Is a replica not diminishing the value of the real thing? How special is Louis Vuitton now that there are thousands of replicas? No one really cares, I certainly don't. To me, it's not about money. It's the aura of the real thing that captures peoples hearts, and if you're a true Ferrari fan I think you'd appreciate that. Why replicate a SWB when you can go out and get a 328 or something? I'd rather have the experience of a real thing, than a real experience of a fake thing, but that's just IMHO.

 

What would the price be for a new 330P body and chassis without engine or transmission?