The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

The fact that I had not come across the Obrist name (since you aquired directly from David Piper, he was there at the auction!!) in combination with 0846 had confused me.
So this is indeed 0856. Funny these guys wrote down the wrong number!

 

Yes I had a very nice chat with David at the Auction. Great to see him again. For those who may be interested next Tuesday at 5pm NY time i will be on Bloomberg TV talking about the Auction.

 

I like the poll being open again. I missed the opportunity to vote last time it was active. Jim has done an incredible restoration of a beautiful car.
Thanks for sharing a wonderful story. Having only read the documentation, I belive it is 0846 absent a serial number plate.

-steve

 

I just read the whole thread over the last week. Yes it took that long. It was jumbled but still a very interesting story.

-s

 

I think the reason is that she was hiding in plain sight. For many years she could have been bought for a relative song from David. When I bought her I had no idea that she included about 80% of the chassis remains of 0846. Many felt that all of my posting was simply a ploy to inflate her value and turn her into something that she wasn't. Ten years ago I stated that she wasn't nor wouldn't be for sale but many didn't believe me. The complexities of the evidence that this was a P3 chassis modified exactly as described in 0846's Technical Data Sheets eluded many for a long time. The proof that David really didn't understand that fact and that this chassis was not built to P4 Blueprints was hard for some to accept even when confronted with absolute photographic proof that David's understanding was 100 degrees opposite of reality, basically that to fit a P4 engine into a P3 Chassis you have to reach forward with new motor mounts not backwards. Nathan's photo's of 0846 when David owned her and had her fitted with a P3 engine proved beyond the shadow of any doubt that not only was I correct but that I had not forged this chassis modification. The legal process of proving that this car was 1967 Ferrari P 3/4 0846 to US and Italian DMV and Custom Authorities took time but now that that has been done and the fact that that ruling can never be legally challenged by anyone changed things a lot. Ferrari's using an image of my car for an Authorised Ferrari Product was a another change. Marcel Massini's referring to this car as "Resurrected 0846" was a change. The recognition of this in the FML article that proceeded the latest RM Auction that featured 0858 was a change. 0846 is what she is. Everything she is and isn't has been fully disclosed for many years. She remains in parked in my garage on Ferrari S.p.A.'s new web site, the content of which is solely in Ferrari's discretion as she has been since 2000.

"between the two cars.
Chassis 0856, still as a 330 P4, was
sold to England and remains the only origi-
nal P4 in existence. It is now in the hands
of a prominent North American collector.
Chassis 0858 and 0860 were also sold off
and had some further competition history in
private hands. Eventually 0860 was con-
verted back to P4 configuration and is in a
collection in France and 0858 is coming up
at auction next month. While Ferrari insists
that 0846 was scrapped and is no more, a
car exists with strong claims to be the resur-
rection of that car."

FML

All is good.
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I agree with 52.44% and 33.28%. What I would really like to hear is the 13.68% give us there case for the car being an ex David Piper replica.Anyone want to have a go at this??? just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

Why?, confused, that is the easiest case and simply implies that David Piper didn't realise that the cars chassis for his replica (which it was during his ownership) was from a real P3/4.

I still find it odd that he did not question the differences, but I guess those that still consider the car to be an ex-Piper replica don't ... ?.

Best
Pete

 

You also have to remember that when David did finally "explain" to Nathan, years after I bought this car and had published my pdf., Davids explanation was 100% (180 degrees) Incorrect.

 

Having read the thread and documentation, I'm now most curious about that moment in the car's story when it was realized what it is. Was it a "hey, this could be..." or "holy s**t, this is the real thing"? A burning question or gobsmacked amazement?

I once bought a beautiful 18th century print for $40 in a pawn shop (yes, a pawn shop), only to realize some years later that it was an incredibly valuable original. When I finally put two and two together, I nearly fainted. I can't imagine this was much different.

 

Read the thread, it's all in there. I for one don't intend going over old ground yet again.
Nathan

 

It can and does happen from time to time. Our first clue was shortly after we got her home and took her completely apart and noticed the vestigial P3 motor mounts on the bare chassis.

Page 146 post #2901 was very important as well. (Summed up in post # 3414 on page 171)

Best

 

I voted yes.

From what I gather Jim has made his case as a fan of history and the car, with the passion of a fan rather than one that wishes to gain from their words ... a car that will not be sold in his lifetime ... it is what it is.

 

The two don't contradict eachother. It is perfectly logical that Ferrari meant to dispose of the chassis remains of 0846 and that therefor 0846 was penned down as 'scrapped' in the Ferrari-archives. Therefor, as far as the factory is concerned, the chassis is scrapped. But the question remains, what did actually happen with the tubes that formed the chassis of 0846? The factory meant for them to be destroyed and administrated them as such, but it is not so hard to believe that whoever got the task of actually destroying the chassis, didn't do a good job and this particular chassis ended up with Jim through Piper. That doesn't sound far fetched to me at all and I must admit that forensically, Jim makes a very good case. So yes, I believe the car in Jim's possession being built on the remains of 0846 and not only that, it is also thé most famous car on all of Fchat!

 

Another interesting photo with #0846.
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Probably at the Salon de Genève in march.

 

Torino 1967.

 

Probably because of the differnce in value between a real car and a fake or replicar.

 

Or because we owe it to history.

 

But it is 0846, with #23 from Daytona
Genève is 9/19 march and Torino in november.
???

 

Unfortunately, it seems many more are concerned about the money than the history

 

Art, history and academia have always relied on patrons. There is no reason they can't coexist successfully.

 

la même.

 

There was a race car show in Torino during February 25 to March 5, 1967. At the Museo Biscaretti di Ruffia.

 

Ah yes,very nice museum.