The passing dilema in F1 - What's your take?

When the FIA changed the rule on whose corner it is beginning of last year or whenever they did it, plenty of us saw it was problematic.

They need to change it back to what it was. Always leave room for the other driver, simple as that.

What pisses me off though is the obvious media bias, once again from a certain country that dominates the F1 press, and magically they get upset about it the moment drivers from their country are disadvantaged.

C'est la vie.

 

+1,

Don't shove you opponent off the track, or squeeze him against the wall.

 

It's simple. Pick a line.

If you want to protect the inside, the middle, or the outside, that's fine. Russel displayed this kind defensive driving against Hamilton, and it was perfectly fair.

What's not fair, is moving from one side of the track to the other, back and forth. That's not even blocking. That's swerving, pure and simple.

Max even took it beyond that. If you look at his second incident, he was fully aware Norris's front wing was aligned with his rear wheel. He was blatantly trying to clip the latter's front wing, and cripple his race. Look at the replay. It's either that, or he's blind. I think we all know Max's talent rules out the latter.

Very disappointing from Max. He showed his mental immaturity today.

 

Why you bringing up Sir Lewis Hamilton's name? This ain't got nothing to do with Sir Lewis Hamilton. This is Max's way of driving when he doesn't have a dominant car.

 

It's always the overtaking person's responsibility

 

The rules and FIA are not the problem. FWIW I'm an SCCA amateur clubracer at the highest level. Our passing rules are the same as in F1 and have been for at least the last 25 years or so I have clubraced. Just like drivers who sometimes get it wrong FIA stewards can sometimes get it wrong too. Mostly everyone is OK and most cars finish the race. The drivers are making decisions at 200mph or 300ft/sec! At best I'm hitting 1/2 that speed and nailing fine braking points for consistent laps within 1/2 a sec/lap is difficult and takes all my concentration in non-physical 1G car. These F1 drivers are at lapping at consistent 1/10th's of seconds at 5G's! FIA stewards are a committee trying to not only interpret the rules but decide during a race while still watching the race of 20 cars not just what's on TV and digesting the telemetry data to make these decisions at the same time. We and the likes of well respected ex-F1 racer Martin Brundle have the benefit of second guessing FIA decision after we have thought about all the data and video at our leisure under no time pressure for a decision.

IMO the FIA stewards got the lando penalty wrong. There should not have been one except for Max who pushed him off. I follow Brundle's line of reasoning on that incident based on telemetry of both cars and positions on track at 300ft/sec that no one could have decided by just looking at the video.

IMO the FIA stewards got it right to penalize Max in mexico the 20 seconds. MAX was a hazard on the track. Max abused the friendship he has with Norris. If Hammy was in Norris car there would have been both cars crashed out because Hammy is smart enough to know you don't appease a bully.

Why is all this bad driving happening? It isn't the rules and it isn't the stewards. The rules are fine and make sense. The officiating is just fine. The problem with all bad behavior is lack of consequences. Fangio would never drive like Max because in those days you died if made a mistake. Darwin killed off all the idiots in the 50's and 60's. Today you take risk and the only penalty is cost the team a few mill to fix the car. Tracks today really suck. Many F1 tracks are Tilke design and they are basically all the same track with a left for T1 instead of a right for T1 on the next Tilke track. Why are there track limits issues? Because the tracks are made too safe. I can take risks at CoTA because there are just painted lines to mess with your brain and the walls are so far you almost never hit them. Why does F1 not race at watkins Glenn like in the old days but yet I just raced at Watkins Glenn in June as an amateur? Watkins Glenn is dangerous and eats cars. There is mostly no runoff room. The place is surrounded by blue armco so close to the track that even us amateurs racing at amateur speeds hit those walls. NO Consequences! We actually have this same bad behavior in the amateurs and it is the worst I have ever seen it in my 25 years of wheel to wheel racing. All that safety is trickling down to the amateurs and we are at much lower speeds. Simulators are now training level for amateurs at about $10k just 5 sets of tires. drivers are taking zero risk on the sims and then sending it on the track. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Remember this?
https://racer.com/2022/10/30/the-martinsville-rimshot-heard-round-the-world-driver-reactions/


"How did Ross Chastain come up with a 'video game' move at Martinsville?
After the race, Chastain told the origin story of the move. It stemmed from childhood memories of playing NASCAR 2005 on the GameCube with his younger brother, Chad. Chastain had seen it done in the game. He wanted to see if it worked in real life, too. "

 

This problem began when they started paving runoff.

In the days of kitty litter, you couldn't just elbow your way through. The guy on the outside would hold his line and you might both get taken out.

Now the smart thing to do if you're on the outside is to simply bail. It sucks, but it's better than risking suspension damage. This has changed the risk calculus for the passer. Why not shove your way through? You know the other guy will concede. It's an ugly form of racing. And it's the only way this generation knows.

Rather than relying on the natural boundaries of the track to enforce limits, we're left with stewards policing track limits and making judgment calls about who left who enough room.

It's racing with referees.

Reintroduce gravel traps and barriers and all this nonsense goes away.

 

See my note above. I think it would change behavior, because it's not obvious that the guy getting passed will acquiesce. Today, it's a safe bet.

 

Max is my least favorite driver because this has always been his MO. But you're also correct that he's emblematic of this entire generation. It's ugly.

 

Sir Lewis Hamilton has never driven to this extreme, in fact he is one of the most fairest champions on track. Sir Lewis Hamilton never received such harsh penalties for doing what Max does. This is all on Max. Max creates this.

 

Max in Vegas last year deliberately drove the leader off the track in turn one. He calculated the 5 second penalty into the move, and basically told the stewards to go jump in a radio broadcast. That kind of driving cannot be endorsed. He's gotten more and more blatant about it. At this point, he needs to be black flagged and parked. The BS about who is ahead at the apex is just that: BS. Anyone can be ahead at the apex if they have no intention of actually making the corner.

 

Agree. I’m a Max fan and what he displayed was poor form and not becoming of a champ. More like a chump.

 

Why do I s often hear Max's voice saying "you have to leave the space"..?

And yet...space?????

 

Totally disagree.

I've given Hamilton more than a tiny bit of criticism on here. But I've not seen him use tactics anywhere as deliberate as Max's today. Yeah, Hamilton has taken position off the track more than once, and he's capable of bonehead driving.

Max was driving like a bonehead. He was driving like a ******. For the better part of 3 years he just drives by people on the straights, and they're mostly helpless to do anything about it. I guess they were unaware they could zig and zag, and swerve from one line to another to defend their position.

Last year when Max pushed Leclerc off, I wrote it off as an incident. When Max and Lando came together in Austria, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I tried to do the same last week in Austin. Nobody wants to believe a 3 time champion is intentionally swerving at people, and using his car as a weapon.

Today? That was just low down, nasty, dirty driving. I don't care where you come from, or whether Norris is your favorite driver or not. Hell, Max run Sainz off that was just as blatant.

No this was using your car as a weapon in a way that frankly, is totally unacceptable from a champion like Max.

IMHO, if Max tries to swerve into his opposition again, he needs to be black flagged and pulled from the race.

We all thought Max had grown out of this nonsense and had matured. But sorry to say, Hamilton was right when he said Max's tactics need a discussion.

 

Absolutely, another problem is the car’s size right now..

 

Frankly all of this began with the young Max during his first years in F1 and the way FIA let him do this kind of manœuvre ( just remember a Mexican GP against Vettel ..)

 

I think the FIA is going to clamp down on this type of behavior with regards to Max passing his rivals on track by not just adding 10 second penalty points in succession but also penalty points to Max's superlicense.

IF Max still exhibits this type of behavior, he will eventually cause himself a race ban in the upcoming races.

 

When ALL non RedBull drivers are aligned then the issue IS a sporting issue !!!!

 

I absolutely agree with you. I'm a Kart racer - or was a Kart racer, after an accident last year my wife has been on me to stop, so I have largely stopped racing... but the standard of driving is so poor and there is no etiquette anymore. Everyone thinks they are Senna, and drive like they are going for a championship. I was flipped upside down - no fault of my own, two guys on either side - lap one, trying to make a move... one pushed me into the other guy, hit me again and over the top I went... broke the cart, doused me in fuel, and lucky, no injury to me other than a small abrasion and a killer headache for a day. Drivers have to have more respect for others on track.... its plain and simple. F1 guys are just now taught to be dirty racers... super aggressive - because there are very few physical consequences, and When it happens it can be lethal. Like Antoine Hubert at Spa.

 

It began way before he got to F-1 ... it starts in Karting.

 

Well to be fair Senna was the real precursor of all of this ..

 

It came when the cars became safe with burstproof fuel bladers, and the circuits were lined up with guardrails.

There was more respect all around when accidents often brought fatal consequences.