The passing dilema in F1 - What's your take?

For years it has been a problem and it has gotten worse of the years. Dare we thank Lewis for being at the front of not being able to pass someone without driving them off the road? That's his go to move when he doesn't have a car that can drive around anyone on the straight before even hitting the brakes. Not only was this considered okay by the FIA, the stewards and the media. It was applauded as great passing.

In 2021 Max shows up with a car that could compete with Mercedes and started pushing Lewis around like Lewis was doing to everyone else for a decade. Sound the alarms, the FIA, the stewards and the media now say this is bad racing and it needs to be changed.

Some "rules" and guidelines change after 2021 that say you need to be along side another with some pretty specific criteria. I don't even know what they are exactly. Like where the front tire needs to be along side the other car. Seems like being along side and behind ahead at the apex are not related, but yet they are? Depends how they see it one day to the next.

Fast Forward to 2024 and in typical F1 fashion, they not only can't interrupt their own rules they can't enforce them properly:

We have Lando dive bombs lap after lap in Austria, that's okay I guess?
We have Max dive bombs, not okay.
Carlos drives others off the track at COTA sprint... great move!
Max drives others off the track at COTA.... muuuurder!
We have seen some cases of drivers getting penalized for driving another car off track, and in most cases we don't. Yet today in Mexico we see two 10 second penalties to Max. That's insane. Remember last week when Lando made a technically "illegal" pass off the track and got just a 5 second penalty.

I despise the way F1 lets them races. I hate the move to push another driver off the track, I don't care if it's Lewis, Lando, Max or even a Ferrari driver. You have to leave room if a car gets in there beside you. Dive bombs are always dirty and if there is contact it's almost always their fault.

There are hundreds of examples that can be used from just this season, but one thing that remains consistent is the stewards and the FIA police passing differently depending who is making the pass. We all want hard, clean racing. When two cars go side by side through a string of corners it's incredible. How it's all about dive bomb and push off the track and then bicker and complain who did what worse. Then try to make sense of what crazy penalty or lack thereof the Stewards decide to dish out.

 

When the FIA changed the rule on whose corner it is beginning of last year or whenever they did it, plenty of us saw it was problematic.

They need to change it back to what it was. Always leave room for the other driver, simple as that.

What pisses me off though is the obvious media bias, once again from a certain country that dominates the F1 press, and magically they get upset about it the moment drivers from their country are disadvantaged.

C'est la vie.

 

+1,

Don't shove you opponent off the track, or squeeze him against the wall.

 

It's simple. Pick a line.

If you want to protect the inside, the middle, or the outside, that's fine. Russel displayed this kind defensive driving against Hamilton, and it was perfectly fair.

What's not fair, is moving from one side of the track to the other, back and forth. That's not even blocking. That's swerving, pure and simple.

Max even took it beyond that. If you look at his second incident, he was fully aware Norris's front wing was aligned with his rear wheel. He was blatantly trying to clip the latter's front wing, and cripple his race. Look at the replay. It's either that, or he's blind. I think we all know Max's talent rules out the latter.

Very disappointing from Max. He showed his mental immaturity today.

 

Why you bringing up Sir Lewis Hamilton's name? This ain't got nothing to do with Sir Lewis Hamilton. This is Max's way of driving when he doesn't have a dominant car.

 

It's always the overtaking person's responsibility

 

The rules and FIA are not the problem. FWIW I'm an SCCA amateur clubracer at the highest level. Our passing rules are the same as in F1 and have been for at least the last 25 years or so I have clubraced. Just like drivers who sometimes get it wrong FIA stewards can sometimes get it wrong too. Mostly everyone is OK and most cars finish the race. The drivers are making decisions at 200mph or 300ft/sec! At best I'm hitting 1/2 that speed and nailing fine braking points for consistent laps within 1/2 a sec/lap is difficult and takes all my concentration in non-physical 1G car. These F1 drivers are at lapping at consistent 1/10th's of seconds at 5G's! FIA stewards are a committee trying to not only interpret the rules but decide during a race while still watching the race of 20 cars not just what's on TV and digesting the telemetry data to make these decisions at the same time. We and the likes of well respected ex-F1 racer Martin Brundle have the benefit of second guessing FIA decision after we have thought about all the data and video at our leisure under no time pressure for a decision.

IMO the FIA stewards got the lando penalty wrong. There should not have been one except for Max who pushed him off. I follow Brundle's line of reasoning on that incident based on telemetry of both cars and positions on track at 300ft/sec that no one could have decided by just looking at the video.

IMO the FIA stewards got it right to penalize Max in mexico the 20 seconds. MAX was a hazard on the track. Max abused the friendship he has with Norris. If Hammy was in Norris car there would have been both cars crashed out because Hammy is smart enough to know you don't appease a bully.

Why is all this bad driving happening? It isn't the rules and it isn't the stewards. The rules are fine and make sense. The officiating is just fine. The problem with all bad behavior is lack of consequences. Fangio would never drive like Max because in those days you died if made a mistake. Darwin killed off all the idiots in the 50's and 60's. Today you take risk and the only penalty is cost the team a few mill to fix the car. Tracks today really suck. Many F1 tracks are Tilke design and they are basically all the same track with a left for T1 instead of a right for T1 on the next Tilke track. Why are there track limits issues? Because the tracks are made too safe. I can take risks at CoTA because there are just painted lines to mess with your brain and the walls are so far you almost never hit them. Why does F1 not race at watkins Glenn like in the old days but yet I just raced at Watkins Glenn in June as an amateur? Watkins Glenn is dangerous and eats cars. There is mostly no runoff room. The place is surrounded by blue armco so close to the track that even us amateurs racing at amateur speeds hit those walls. NO Consequences! We actually have this same bad behavior in the amateurs and it is the worst I have ever seen it in my 25 years of wheel to wheel racing. All that safety is trickling down to the amateurs and we are at much lower speeds. Simulators are now training level for amateurs at about $10k just 5 sets of tires. drivers are taking zero risk on the sims and then sending it on the track. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Remember this?
https://racer.com/2022/10/30/the-martinsville-rimshot-heard-round-the-world-driver-reactions/


"How did Ross Chastain come up with a 'video game' move at Martinsville?
After the race, Chastain told the origin story of the move. It stemmed from childhood memories of playing NASCAR 2005 on the GameCube with his younger brother, Chad. Chastain had seen it done in the game. He wanted to see if it worked in real life, too. "

 

I think i was clear on the point. Lewis' move of drive the other guy off the track became accepted and praised and then of course adopted by other drivers. For 10 years this was supposedly okay, and it all changed when it started to happen to him.

Look at the racing we have now. The road to this path is relevant.

It's not just Max in 2 incidents today. Or even the fact we saw at least half a dozen cases of a dive bomb and/or drive the other off the track, all escaping penalty except Max. It's about this is the trash racing we are forced to endure because a very very simple rule of "leave space" is not implied. Anyone that has done any sim racing knows how to race side by side, but the F1 rules and guidelines allow for this dive bomb and cut off tactic. Then what's worse is if or when a penalty comes down and by how severe all depends on which drivers are involved.

 

This problem began when they started paving runoff.

In the days of kitty litter, you couldn't just elbow your way through. The guy on the outside would hold his line and you might both get taken out.

Now the smart thing to do if you're on the outside is to simply bail. It sucks, but it's better than risking suspension damage. This has changed the risk calculus for the passer. Why not shove your way through? You know the other guy will concede. It's an ugly form of racing. And it's the only way this generation knows.

Rather than relying on the natural boundaries of the track to enforce limits, we're left with stewards policing track limits and making judgment calls about who left who enough room.

It's racing with referees.

Reintroduce gravel traps and barriers and all this nonsense goes away.

 

Amateur club racing has massive consequences since most of the drivers pay for their own equipment. Plus it's club racing not elite championship level of racing, so the status and money involved to win isn't the same. Never the less the standard of driving in any serious has always been to leave room. Often the room left is the absolute bare minimum but I've never seen his horrible thinking that whoever gets to the apex first has the right to drive the other car right off the track. At least not until F1 made this a standard practice.

You're right that tracks are too safe and can't self police the drivers, but at the same time would it even matter or would drivers be willing to shove someone off the track into grass or gravel and force the guy on the outside to back off or crash. That's not good racing to me.

Honestly I love a good battle that has both cars going off track from time to time and fighting for the best line, but it's become a matter of intent. IMO, Max today had full intention of driving Lando off the track. The reality is, he isn't the only one doing it and it isn't being policed fairly.

 

See my note above. I think it would change behavior, because it's not obvious that the guy getting passed will acquiesce. Today, it's a safe bet.

 

Max is my least favorite driver because this has always been his MO. But you're also correct that he's emblematic of this entire generation. It's ugly.

 

Sir Lewis Hamilton has never driven to this extreme, in fact he is one of the most fairest champions on track. Sir Lewis Hamilton never received such harsh penalties for doing what Max does. This is all on Max. Max creates this.

 

Max in Vegas last year deliberately drove the leader off the track in turn one. He calculated the 5 second penalty into the move, and basically told the stewards to go jump in a radio broadcast. That kind of driving cannot be endorsed. He's gotten more and more blatant about it. At this point, he needs to be black flagged and parked. The BS about who is ahead at the apex is just that: BS. Anyone can be ahead at the apex if they have no intention of actually making the corner.

 

Agree. I’m a Max fan and what he displayed was poor form and not becoming of a champ. More like a chump.

 

Why do I s often hear Max's voice saying "you have to leave the space"..?

And yet...space?????

 

Totally disagree.

I've given Hamilton more than a tiny bit of criticism on here. But I've not seen him use tactics anywhere as deliberate as Max's today. Yeah, Hamilton has taken position off the track more than once, and he's capable of bonehead driving.

Max was driving like a bonehead. He was driving like a ******. For the better part of 3 years he just drives by people on the straights, and they're mostly helpless to do anything about it. I guess they were unaware they could zig and zag, and swerve from one line to another to defend their position.

Last year when Max pushed Leclerc off, I wrote it off as an incident. When Max and Lando came together in Austria, I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I tried to do the same last week in Austin. Nobody wants to believe a 3 time champion is intentionally swerving at people, and using his car as a weapon.

Today? That was just low down, nasty, dirty driving. I don't care where you come from, or whether Norris is your favorite driver or not. Hell, Max run Sainz off that was just as blatant.

No this was using your car as a weapon in a way that frankly, is totally unacceptable from a champion like Max.

IMHO, if Max tries to swerve into his opposition again, he needs to be black flagged and pulled from the race.

We all thought Max had grown out of this nonsense and had matured. But sorry to say, Hamilton was right when he said Max's tactics need a discussion.

 

Absolutely, another problem is the car’s size right now..

 

Frankly all of this began with the young Max during his first years in F1 and the way FIA let him do this kind of manœuvre ( just remember a Mexican GP against Vettel ..)

 

I think the FIA is going to clamp down on this type of behavior with regards to Max passing his rivals on track by not just adding 10 second penalty points in succession but also penalty points to Max's superlicense.

IF Max still exhibits this type of behavior, he will eventually cause himself a race ban in the upcoming races.

 

When ALL non RedBull drivers are aligned then the issue IS a sporting issue !!!!

 

I absolutely agree with you. I'm a Kart racer - or was a Kart racer, after an accident last year my wife has been on me to stop, so I have largely stopped racing... but the standard of driving is so poor and there is no etiquette anymore. Everyone thinks they are Senna, and drive like they are going for a championship. I was flipped upside down - no fault of my own, two guys on either side - lap one, trying to make a move... one pushed me into the other guy, hit me again and over the top I went... broke the cart, doused me in fuel, and lucky, no injury to me other than a small abrasion and a killer headache for a day. Drivers have to have more respect for others on track.... its plain and simple. F1 guys are just now taught to be dirty racers... super aggressive - because there are very few physical consequences, and When it happens it can be lethal. Like Antoine Hubert at Spa.

 

It began way before he got to F-1 ... it starts in Karting.

 

Well to be fair Senna was the real precursor of all of this ..

 

It came when the cars became safe with burstproof fuel bladers, and the circuits were lined up with guardrails.

There was more respect all around when accidents often brought fatal consequences.