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Thoughts on putting a powered subwoofer in 308 trunk?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Mike328, Jan 20, 2004.

  1. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    I've been investigating way to get a more robust sound from my 308's stereo (which has already been upgraded). What's missing in my current system is low end fullness that's typically filled in by a dedicated woofer or subwoofer.

    The traditional solution is to mount a 6.5" or an 8" woofer in the passenger kickpanel and drive it with an amplifier--many have done this.

    However, I'm investigating an alternative solution would have many advantages--using a powered subwoofer mounted in the trunk.

    Consider this line of tube-style powered subwoofers:
    http://www.bazooka.com/productAutoAmplifiedBTsEL.asp

    My current system--four speakers--is powered by the built-in amplifier in my new head unit (Pioneer), 25x4 I believe (maybe 22x4). This sound is in general adequate, except the speakers distort when fed bass at loud volumes (obviously). SO: There is not necessarily a need for a new amplifier for these speakers, although that would definitely be an upgrade. Amps in a 308 are a bit tricky but of course can be done. A powered sub, then, with its own amplifier, simply uses a power lead from the battery and an input from the head unit. Easier wiring than an amp. Also, if I decide to power the four main speakers with their own amp, I can get four channel amp for the main speakers without having to worry about a fifth channel for a (nonpowered) sub, bridging the output for a nonpowered sub, or using a second dedicated amp for the nonpowered sub.

    So those are my thoughts currently... I'm not worried about getting competition level sound at all; I'm worried about getting decent bass/low end with my system while altering the 308 as little as possible.

    Worries: Taking up space in the trunk (not a big deal, it can be removed, and I very seldom use the trunk except for a few plastic bags/groceries!). Heat in the trunk (should be within spec of the powered sub's amp, will measure). Not hearing adequate bass in the cabin through the engine/firewall (though it's not uncommon for subs to be mounted in the trunk, albeit without an engine in between it and the passenger). Having to wire input and new, thick power leads to the trunk area from the battery/cabin area.

    I've never seen anybody mention this as a solution.

    Does it seem viable? Powered subs have gotten a lot more popular and refined in the past five years, I've noticed.
     
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  3. chaa

    chaa F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2003
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    If you put a sub in the boot of a 308 all you will get is vibration of the car and not bass sound,unless you can put sound ports through from the boot to the cokpit. In my old 328 i ran in the cockpit x4 6in mind,x4 tweeters, and a 8in 300 wt sub,all running on three amps located under the seats and in the front boot, With soundsystem some times you can spend a small fortune on instal and get a bad sound.I had my pics up on the old forum arround sep last year i think, that showed the install. But a sub in the boot is not a good idea due to the 308 layout.
     
  4. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Additional thoughts:

    I would use the pre-amp outputs of my head unit as inputs to the subwoofer.

    I'm more and more concerned about getting just bass "punch" that shakes the car (not really what I want) vs. full, solid low to mid range sound. I think I might get the latter a bit better with a 6.5" woofer mounted inside the kick panel in the actual cabin itself...
     
  5. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    Then you can add some chrome rims and neon lights under the car and you will have one rocking Fiat. You want to be sure and get some body piercings too if you want to drive that thing. It looks like the price of 308s have now gotten low enough that anyone can now buy one !
     
  6. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    Mike you may want to consider another stealthier alternative. Go to www.aurasound.com and investigate a product they have called 'bass shakers' . I put these in my car and am very pleased with them. Alpine used to sell these a few years back but Aurasound has the patent and they were making the units for Alpine.

    When researching these I noticed that just about everyone I talked to knew nothing about these but quickly drew conclusions based on the name of the product. As you can see I was surrounded by some real 'experts'. Eventually I chatted with a good friend of mine who designs loudspeakers and REALLY knows his acoustics. In consultation with him, I decided to install these under my seats. They are wired to the sub-woffer out of my deck and through an amp I have under the passenger foot rest. The sound with them is really good. There is a lot of depth and none of the BOOM BOOM sounds associated with the neon lovers of the world.

    The install is where it gets interesting. Under the seats there is not enough room to mount them (the seats are too low). However there is a trick here. The 308 under the seats has 2 foors. One is made of fiberglass and another of steel (this is the floor seen when you look under the car). These 2 floors are about 2" apart and bordered by square steel beams. Essentially we are dealing with an empty cavity that is about 1.5' by 1.5'. Now try to follow me here. This is what I did:

    1. I removed the seat and in the center of where it lays I cut a hole in the fiberglass hole just larger than the bass shaker.

    2. I then layed the bass shaker in place and made the 4 mounting holes required on the steel foor pan. Making sure that the shaker does not touch the edges of the fiberglass hole.

    3. Once the holes were made, I removed the shaker and painted the steel floor (through the fiberglass hole) with some spray undercoating. This elimintates the possibility of acoustical rattles in the metal pan.

    4. I then stuffed fiberglass insulation in the hole and wedged it right where the steel frame that 'boxes in' the under seat cavity meets both the upper fiberglass and lower steel floor. There is no need to fill this area. Only stuff the fiberglass to border the 'box' that is under the seat.

    What you are left with is a fairly efficient base 'box' made from the original structure of the car.

    5. Then bolt the bass shaker in and repeat on the other side.

    The inside of the 308 is a bit of an acoustical nightmare but this modification was cost effective and yielded excellent results. Oh BTW, I bought my bass shakers off of E-bay for under $100 brand new in box.

    Good luck Mike.
     
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  8. sennapanzer

    sennapanzer Rookie

    Jan 19, 2004
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    Dude, that's too funny... how could one be listening to anything but the sweetest sound -- the motor! I thought the stereos were for garage use only (per owner's manual...). Leave the amp, pre-amp, subs, cross-overs for your other car and concentrate on Brembo, Tubi, Ohlins, etc... :)
     
  9. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Parkerfr, let me pause and figure out how best to say this. Ok, got it. You really sound like an idiot!

    I'm not sure who you were responding to, but your attitude sucks and frankly you smell like you just came from the General forums.

    Nobody wants your opinions, because those you've shared in particular smell like a dirty stinky as$hole, and your Hummer H2 driving, 308 patronizing tone gets old really fast.

    Do us all a favor: if you don't have anything positive to post, go wank it to your law books.

    On a final note, I see you've got an H2? Yeah, that's REALLY cool. Tell you what, why don't you check out this link:

    http://www.fuh2.com/

    Check out some the pictures and thoughts. Congratulations, here you thought people thought you were COOL in that thing! Your H2s and M5s and even your 512bbis won't earn you my respect.

    Way to go ace.

    Open to apologies.
     
  10. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    sennapanzer, I'm going to go easy on you here because you're new.

    Everytime somebody who ENJOYS music in their car is figuring out how to TASTEFULLY obtain good sound, some hot shot posts the "Dude you don't need a stereo the engine is the music" remark.

    For the record, I do have an ANSA w/ a K&N and have never heard a sweeter sounding engine sound, which I love. At the same time I find the right music when driving can have an effect of really pulling you out of reality, of the traffic, of everything else, and lets me focus more on the joy of the car.


    Thanks for your thoughts though. See Rob's post (Nuvolari) for an example of what I was looking for. :)


    --Mike
     
  11. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Nuvolari, thanks for the information. You mentioned the bass shakers to me in the past and I had a brief look but will re-investigate.

    My biggest concern is getting a low/mid-range "Sound gap", where I have mids and higher covered, the subwoofer-level lows covered, but the inbetween absent of "sonic representation" if you see what I'm getting at. I'll check out the frequency response of the bass shakers.

    I'm also currently looking into a dedicated woofer...
     
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  13. Enzo

    Enzo F1 Rookie

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    #10 Enzo, Jan 20, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Mike,

    I used to install and compete in local audio shows with a VW at 1 time (not the booming cars but clear true sound). I have looked at 308's and without some major cutting putting a sub in might be quite hard. The bass shakers sound like a neat deal but if you have to cut up your floor for it are you ready for that? If you are really interested go down to the local car stereo shop and have them show you some door panels that they could build for you. You could go this route and take off your stock door panels and save them for resale value and then have the stereo shop build you new ones. I think the cost here is much better than the dimished value of your car once you start cutting up the floor or the kick panels. The Bazooka's are nice if you have a hatchback but putting them in a 308 is really just throwing money away. I have attached a picture of a custom made door panel so you can see what can be done. (please note that one for a 308 would look different and would be custom to the car itself)
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  14. Mike C

    Mike C F1 Veteran
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    Mike P's right... I *love* the sound of my 308QV, but sometimes the music of the engine just isn't enough when doing longer trips. If you've been cruising at high speed with the targa off and the sounds of Born To Be Wild or the theme from "Top Gun" going high volume, you know a good stereo with subwoofer can really add to the overall Ferrari experience.
     
  15. Mike C

    Mike C F1 Veteran
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    The kick panel cover in a 308 is no big deal. It's a flat piece of sheet metal. You can keep your original and just replace it with another piece with a proper hole cut out of it for your sub.
     
  16. chaa

    chaa F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2003
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    Mick let it go dude, thats how some people are its no issue man.I myself am into sounds and know where your thinking is comming from.There are many types of owners thouse who say that a car should stay standard as it left ferrari (then go and change there exaust) and there are thouse who want to modify there cars i my self fall into the last.Any one only has to watch MTV to see the Ferraris dont stay standard for long do they?The problem with your responce to certain people is that before you know it the CLICKY ones will be on your back,then you spend days trying to deffend your self from attacks when you only wanted to know the answer to a bloody question.Let it go dude.
     
  17. jimpo1

    jimpo1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    You might consider mounting a sub in the panel in the passenger side footwell. You can make your own panel pretty easily, and there's more than enough room for it behind there. One of the Dallas owners did it that way in his 308 and he can return it to stock pretty easily.
     
  18. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Jim,

    That seems to be a very good solution... But, I'm a bit worried about that main plate there. It keeps things screwed down nicely... I'd probably have to get an extra one to cut in to to mount the sub, so I could still bolt it down while keeping the original plate.

    I'm presuming that, even at the say 10 degree angle that it's at, the back of the sub won't hit the floorboard there behind the footwell.

    The other issue is, I have my keyless entry stuff all installed back there--would have to do so work with relocating that. The cat ECUs are no issue, but there are two other units there (timers, if I recall) that could might have to be relocated.
     
  19. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    #1 I do not own an H2, my wife does. In any event, it is a great vehicle that competes in its class much better than the 308 does in its class. #2 It is a BB512i, not a 512bbi. #3 My M5 will out perform almost any production Ferraris out there including your 308 and my BB512i. FYI, when I had my 328, 348 and 330GTC I spent my time removing the radio and installing the factory blank-out panel . But, I too used to spend a lot of effort on my car stereo back when I was a teenager. Have fun ruining your 308 for future owners.
     
  20. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

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    When I'm at a long light, or stuck in traffic (yes, in the Lotus) I always put on the radio to pass the time. I'm supposed to rev the engine? THAT's just being an a**hole. There's NOTHING wrong with wanting quality sound in a Ferrari.

    OTOH, a sub woofer in the trunk would be very obnoxious to the community. I'm glad there are a lot of better suggestions being posted.

    Ken
     
  21. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    Of course my posts were made partly "tongue in cheek". However, I still find it strange that the owner of an exotic car would spend a lot of money on a stereo system like the numb skulls in the hot rod Hondas do.
     
  22. Enzo

    Enzo F1 Rookie

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    Hey franky just because someone puts a stereo in their car doesn't make him a numbskull. Were you ever young or have you always been like this? Did you eat paint chips as a kid?
     
  23. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

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    Well, the vision of a sonic boom heard a block away from a 308 doesn't appeal to me much either....

    Ken
     
  24. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Frankie, somebody as intelligent (albeit pompous) as you should be able to understand that some people are musicians, have an ear, and can appreciate the complexity and transcendental qualities of music. All in life is not as rigorous and black in white as law. And in terms of Ferraris, there's more to the experience of driving one than than just being seen in one.

    And somehow you got the wrong idea from what I was trying to do. I'm not into modifying the car at all. I'm trying to get nice sound inside the cabin without cutting any holes in the car itself--those are my requirements.

    And the sub in the truck was a logical engineer's **potential** solution to a difficult problem, and was not begat by the need to keep the neighborhood up at night. I was just investigating the option. Notice the question mark at the end of the title of this thread.

    As for you being anti-stereo in a Ferrari, my feeling is, you probably drive at 2k rpm with your wife in the car, and you've removed the stereo just so you could hear yourself talk. That's my guess if I had to make one.

    No respectful Ferrari ENTHUSIAST would ever patronize another Ferrari. You yourself started down with the more common cars, as you've pointed out. Where along the lines did you turn into such a patronizing prick? Maybe it's time to get rid of the BB512i there, tiger. You know, if the shoe no longer fits and all.

    Glad to hear your wife owns the H2. Now you know what I and the rest of the community at fuh2.com think of her.

    Regards,

    --Mike
     
  25. 308tr6

    308tr6 Formula Junior

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    Hey, go for it on the stereo install and ignore comments from those suggesting otherwise and the arrogant attitude. If you are into music (not a crime) a great install with a separate sub and driver is awesome. Unfortunately subwoofers in a car are often associated with just the blast it out rattle your license plate crowd that definitely exists. However a well designed system can make a car sound system incredible (and not just shake your neighbors) and as you know you won't get that with a standard head unit. I would be very interested in what you come up with for putting a sub in your 308 because I would love to do the same in mine. I would personally suggest maybe considering a 5 channel amp from Kicker for example, since you at least get all the amp needs in one piece, though obviously space is still an issue.
     
  26. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    Wrong again Mikey. My Boxer has the stock Pioneer radio/tape deck with equalizer it came from the factory with. But, the 308 and most other Ferraris of that era came without a radio and the radio was a dealer installed item. And, my wife rarely rides in the Boxer and even when she does she likes to go fast. In fact, until the children were born she had an M5 and was quite quick on the track. I too enjoy music and have a nice system in my M5 and my wife's Hummer including three TV screens with DVD. My comments were geared toward the idea of upgrading the stereo in an classic exotic like your 308. I'm just a "keep it stock" sort of guy that likes the "time capsule" experience you get when driving a Ferrari or any other classic car for that matter, the way it was when it was made. That's why I have chimmed in against aftermarket wheels/tires instead of the OEM TRX or other old tech tires, upgraded brake packages and the like. Sure, you can make the car perform better, but you lose some of the experience in the process . After all, isn't the experience what owning a classic Ferrari is all about ?
     
  27. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Well now there we go Frankie, now we're making some headway.

    Glad to hear you and your wife are enjoying the H2. That really sounds like a portable multistation theatre you've got there!

    It's fairly clear at this point that we are just from different camps. I choose to made some modifications to my 308, but with ultimate respect to the restorability and originality that you adhere so rigorously to. For example, I've put on a larger shift knob because I like it better--but kept the old black one for reversability. You know how it goes. In this manner I'm able to enjoy my car like I want and then, if I ever do sell it, and the buyer is a stickler for gestapo originality, then he or she can still be pacified and otherwise placated. But the modify vs. keep as stock debate has been going on for a long time with of course very little resolution, except that the more reasonable individuals in that particular dialog agree to disagree. I'm hoping we can do the same, though I have my doubts.

    Regarding the 16" wheels, you are correct in that stock on a 78 308 is in fact the smaller 14" wheels. Of course, I've kept them. See comments above about pacification and placation. That said, there are degrees of modifcation, and as I'm sure you're well aware, later 308s called for these very tires. Ferrari wanted you to have the 16" wheel experience; they were of course used through the 328.

    When you write, "Sure, you can make the car perform better, but you lose some of the experience in the process," I think you mean "Frankie can make the car perform better, but Frankie loses some of the experience in the process."

    I lose no "experience" in the process; in fact, the things I do to the car enhances my experience while being respectful to the car. What "the experience of owning a classic Ferrari is all about" is obviously quite dependent on the owner, I'm sure you would agree. For me, it is more than just keeping it identical to stock; experience is working on your own car (Did you do any of that? Just curious), making it drive better, and being committed to having one of the healthiest 308s in the world.

    Thanks for your comments, Frank. It's clear that you *do* have intelligent things to say. You just have to work on expressing yourself better.
     
  28. jimpo1

    jimpo1 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I'd just lose the keyless entry stuff. I'd rather have a stereo any day. Besides, I kind of like walking up to my car and unlocking it.

    My footwell is jammed full of a primitive Lo Jack system. I've never used it, and doubt if it works. I'm ripping it all out this weekend.
     

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