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Three P3's

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Napolis, Dec 8, 2013.

  1. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    #1 Napolis, Dec 8, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  2. Ferrari 360 CS

    Ferrari 360 CS F1 Veteran
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    Dec 4, 2004
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    Jacques
    Beautiful. Reasonably rare picture to see three lined up.
     
  3. Chaos

    Chaos Formula 3

    Sep 29, 2004
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    Nick.
    FABULOUS

    thanks Jim, that pics made my day more pleasant
     
  4. GIOTTO

    GIOTTO F1 Rookie
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    #4 GIOTTO, Dec 8, 2013
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  5. GIOTTO

    GIOTTO F1 Rookie
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    #5 GIOTTO, Dec 8, 2013
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  6. GIOTTO

    GIOTTO F1 Rookie
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    #6 GIOTTO, Dec 8, 2013
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  7. GIOTTO

    GIOTTO F1 Rookie
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    #7 GIOTTO, Dec 8, 2013
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  8. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
  9. ApexOversteer

    ApexOversteer F1 Veteran

    Feb 15, 2007
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    T.A. Bell
    When I get hold of Doc Brown's Delorean, that is the first Time/place I'm going...
     
  10. Vincent Vangool

    Vincent Vangool Formula 3

    Oct 6, 2007
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    Vincent Vangool
    Wonder what one of those Genuine LeMans ladders in the BG would sell for if authenticated....Ha.
     
  11. E60 M5

    E60 M5 Moderator
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    Thanks for posting all these great pics!! Love the LeMans pic.
     
  12. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2012
    6,733
    Great pictures! Thanks for posting. I have one question though. Where are the rest of the P3s and the early prototype except yours two Jim?

    :)
     
  13. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    These are 0846, 0844, and 0848 when they were P3's. 0846 became a P 3/4; 0844 a 412P, a 330 Can Am and today is a 330 Can Am fitted with a replica 412P body. 0848 became a 412P which it is today. There are no P3's existent nor were any ever sold by Ferrari before being converted and in the case of 0846 scrapped. The only original ones left (engine/gearbox/motor/chassis/body) are P4 0856 (was originally a coupe but was converted by Ferrari into a spyder in the day), 412P 0848 and 412P 0854.
     
  14. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2012
    6,733
    I see. Thank you for the full information of each one.
     
  15. donv

    donv F1 World Champ
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    Great pictures!
     
  16. moriaan1

    moriaan1 Formula 3

    Dec 3, 2006
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    Hans
    sooo, 0846 got scrapped!
     
  17. Sig. Roma

    Sig. Roma Formula Junior

    Mar 11, 2007
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    Dom T.
    Jim, can I ask a dumb question. While I was an extreme P3, and P4 fan, I am unable to notice any differences in body work on both cars. Then we add the 412P.

    Are the bodies the same, or are the differences subtle?

    Thanks for your clarification.

    Dom
     
  18. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    #18 Napolis, Dec 10, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
    It did. Ferrari threw it into a bin and years later yelled at me for taking those "Glorious Pieces" out of their trash bin and bringing 0846 "back from the Dead". Go Figure.

    :)
     
  19. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 23, 2002
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    Jim Glickenhaus
    Subtle differences. One is on a P3 bottom of tail side lines up with bottom of door. On a P4 bottom of tail side steps up to enable tail to raise as P4's have shorter wheelbases 2400mm vs. P3 2412mm.
     
  20. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

    Apr 13, 2007
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    I always felt the headlights on the P3's that ran the targa (Like the one on car 21 in the first photo) looked great. They are slightly different than those on the P4's. I also love the P3's alloy wheels, although the P4's are more memorable.
     
  21. model builder

    model builder Formula Junior

    Oct 15, 2003
    315
    Long Island, NY
    Full Name:
    Edward Cervo
    The differences, though small, are numerous. In addition to what has been stated above, the rear taillight panel on the original P3 (in fact the entire rear bonnet) is totally different than the P4's. As mentioned the headlight covers are different, the placement of the headlights themselves is different between the P3 and P4. The 412P had P4 type headlights. Also each race the cars changed. For example 0846 had many configurations as a P3 long before being turned into the P3/4. It had little air scoops on the rear bonnet for Targa and Sebring. At LM they removed them as well as the center row of vents on the bonnet and also fillled the rear hole on the bump that covered the engine. Also the rear bonnet had 4 holes above the split rear screens between the taillights. Those were covered up by a spoiler by the 3rd race.

    P4's have 2 slits in the nose for air, the P3 and 412P's have a single slit as does the P3/4.

    Interior pattern on the seats are different. The 412p's, P3's and the P3/4 had a up and down stitching pattern, the P4's was horizontal.

    The bodies really were very different but very similar in look. The vent area in front of the windshield has a big bump on the P3's and 412P's. The P4 was smoother.

    412P berlinetta roofs are smooth with 3 slits like the P3's but P4's had humps and no slits. P3 and 412P rear windows are the same with more of a V shape, P4 is different.

    Dash boards were different between the cars.

    Once the cars were sold off they really started getting butchered. All you can do is compare pics of each car from each race and then you will see all the little differences.

    At last count I had close to 1000 1960's PERIOD pictures of these cars. Many thanks to this website but the web has lots out there plus the years of collecting books and buying private photos as needed. (I take building models seriously..........)

    As for details like the bore and stroke of the engine and how many pounds of tire pressure they used when racing I could not tell you. However, things like the correct font they used for numbers, configurations of spoilers, shapes of everything and things like that are what interest me.

    Half the fun is in the research. If you start, you may never stop..................
     
  22. solofast

    solofast Formula 3

    Oct 8, 2007
    1,773
    Indianapolis
    Well put, these were essentially hand built cars and ALL of them were different in a hundred very subtle ways.

    One of the biggest differences that is readily visible, even to a casual observer are the rear windows of the P4 which are, as noted, very different than a P3 or 412. The P3 and 412P cars had a longer rear window that started closer to the front of the rear body. The rear window of the P4 was shorter and started further aft. I would guess that this was done to make the window smaller, lighter and allow the body to be shaped in aluminum differently for aerodynamics than could be done with plexiglass, or at least it would reduce the chance of early separation where the window seam met the bodywork.
     
  23. Sig. Roma

    Sig. Roma Formula Junior

    Mar 11, 2007
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    Dom T.
    Thanks for the info. As Model builder said, fun is in the details, and doing the research.

    Makes me wonder what prompted the factory to make so many different changes to the cars?
     
  24. model builder

    model builder Formula Junior

    Oct 15, 2003
    315
    Long Island, NY
    Full Name:
    Edward Cervo
    I am sure when any of the cars were first designed there is the element of sheer beauty as well as function but any changes as they went along logically must have come about due to race experience and any problems that came about. For example adding small winglet/spoilers to keep the rear down. Small scoops on doors to get some air into the interior. Things like that. The cars were made to race.

    As for the 412P's, if I'm not mistaken they were updated P3's with essentially P4 looking bodywork the factory provided for privateer teams. They had the look of half P3 half P4.
     
  25. Sig. Roma

    Sig. Roma Formula Junior

    Mar 11, 2007
    750
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    Dom T.
    Amazing evolution of wonderful and beautiful race cars !!
     

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