Interesting side note... Looked up the Dayco website; http://www.daycoproducts.com/daycoweb.nsf/About_Us?OpenForm and found: " Mark IV Industries, Inc. bought Dayco in 1988. The 1990s was a decade of global acquisitions for Mark IV. Acquired companies with an impact on the Dayco Aftermarket included Anchor Swan (1990), Pirellis belt business (1993), and Purolator (1995)..." Seems like Dayco IS Pirelli! Rgds, Vince
Vincenzo, It seems like there are some sort of fibers in the teeth. The face of the teeth are not just smooth. I also understand that Dayco is Pirelli. BTW, my new belts said Dayco on them.
Changing the belts on a TR every two years regardless of miles seems insane! BTW, always check your new tensioner bearings. I had a bad new one before I even put it on.
What you have to ask yourself is if you were installing the belts, How long would you Warranty the job? If in 40,000 miles if the belt broke, would you pay the customer the cost of a new engine? This is the thinking of the factory. I have personally seen belts in good condition after being in service for over seven years with many miles, but I have also seen some in poor condition at the 30k interval with low mileage. It really depends on how the car is kept and weather conditions in the area driven (ie...temperature, contanmination, etc....). Also a key to long life is that the service is done correctly with the initial belt tension set correctly. My personal feeling is if you go over the recommended service interval, the risk is yours. Best regards, Jim
How true, I had the same thing happen. Fortunately, the aftermarket 2 piece bearing fell apart when it was removed from the box, not after it was installed. The bearings were purchased from a very reputable Ferrari parts supplier, and I was able to return them with no hassle. I then purchased the original 1 piece bearings from a Ferrari dealer. Trying to save a few bucks isn't always worth it.
I have a question... I have a 1997 355B. It is obviously out of warranty. FOHouston did the 30k belt service approx 1 year ago at 13.5k miles (about the 5 year period). I bought the car 4 months ago (14k miles) and now have 25K miles on the odometer. are you guys suggesting that if my belts break, that Ferrari will warranty the engine? If so that would be reason enough to pay the Ferrari dealer for the belt service at the recomended intervals. I own a performance shop, and I am able to perform the service myself; but paying the dealer would be money well spent if Ferrari would 'stand behind' the belt for the 30k or five years.
my personal experience 6 years ago i had a 1986 mondial with 23500 miles on the odometer. one day i went to start it up, and boom, broke the front bank timing belt ever since then on any ferrari i own i change the belt every 4-5 years regardless of whether its gone 30k miles or not, even if its only gone 5k miles. cheap insurance i say just do it
Darolls, I wasn't aware there was a difference in bearings. The one I bought was SKF and it looked identical to the one the dealer had installed that I removed. This is the new one.
FOA will warranty all parts and labor on a major service for 12 months unlimited miles and I suspect most dealers do the same. So if the belt or bearings they install fail in that period, they will pay for any repairs needed as a result of such a failue.
This is the 1st I've heard of a '2 piece' bearing. Could you describe this bearing a bit more? Also, was it for a TR, or a 3x8?
Attached is a picture of my failed aftermarket timing belt. I really can't blame the Mfgr because I used it for 115K miles. Note on this belt that there is no fiber woven into the teeth. I felt that if there was-- that the belt would not have failed. I will try to get over to a friend (Lou's) house to take a picture of his OEM Ferrari belt (Mfg by Pirelli) and post a picture of it. The reason I 'm doing this is so that fellow chatters can be able to identify some key characteristics for quality belts--I'm not trying to say run your Fcar belts for 115K miles. On this belt there is only a thin layer of cloth running on the inside surface of the teeth--this thin cloth layer seemed to propagate cracks in the area where the tooth meets the belt. In my opinion, on the better belts, cloth fibers can be seen in the side of the tooth like you can see here in the side of the strap part of the belt. Mark Image Unavailable, Please Login
Honda's official policy is to change timing belts every 90K miles! What the heck do they put in their belts??? Ferrari needs to find out! Birdman
The bearings are for a 308. The bearings I received from the parts house are SKF. The race on the inner bore(the part that makes contact with the tensioner shaft) is 2 piece. Each race can turn independently of the other. It appears that 2 seperate bearings are pressed into the idler housing. It was one of these bearings that fell apart when I took it out of the box. Needless to say, I was reluctant to order another set from the same supplier, so I returned them and purchased a set from a Ferrari dealer. The bearings from Ferrari have a single race. In other words, it appears that one bearing is pressed into the idler housing. It's times like this when I wish I had a digi. cam. I hope my description is understandable.
Yes I know what you are talking about. There are two halves to the inner race and both have their own bearing balls. These are the original ones that came off the car and were installed at the Ferrari dealer. As you can tell one half is out and the other is still intact.I have never seen one with just the single inner race. BTW, my new one also fell apart as I took it out of the box.
The 308 engine was one of the earliest timing belt designs, and uses a belt originally developed for industrial drive applications. (The late '60s Pontiac SOHC 6 was the 1st high-volume cam belt design that I'm aware of. I helped rebuild one in '68 while waiting for my XK150's crank to be reground. It used a square toothed GATES belt very similar to the 308s.) The 308 cam drive gears and idler bearings are much smaller diameter than newer designs. The result is that when compared to newer belt systems, the belts make much tighter radius turns around the drive pulleys and idlers, thus flexing more in their travels. Newer belt designs use teeth that are higher wider & with peaks & valleys that are round. The result is stronger teeth that are more shear resistant, more even wearing, & cause less & more distributed flexing of the belt's cords. Also, newer belt designs use a much tougher chemical resistant rubber than the original 308 designs used. What I haven't had time to do is to call GATEs & some other mfgs to find out if the 308 belts are now also made of the newer material. All of these contribute to the modern belt system's longevity. Since the 348 & newer cars all use the modern design belts, the earlier posts about replacing them every 3 years inconsistent with the high volume mfg's. Ed Gault, a former FerrariChat member who's since defected to join the Corvette crowd, developed an alternative cam belt system for the 308. It used a modern belt as described above. He built and sold 9 or 10 systems while he was an active member. I always wanted one of his systems, but the $1200 a set is too rich for me. There are 2 or 3 long threads about his system. The earliest one is: New Timing Belt & Pulley System http://www.ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/256120/2273.html
Neither have I now that I understand what was meant. This is the 1st I've heard of anything other than the dual inner race ones. In fact severall of us have discussed pressing the bearings out & rebuilding them with new bearings. There are a couple of flavors of the dual race bearings. One has the edge of the rim turned under & obviously would require machining to disassemble & no obvious way to retain new bearings. The other design has an L shaped ring pressed in to retain the bearings & looks amenable to removing/reinstalling with a little care.
Just a bit of experience from the Fiat world (my first Italian ride). The ubiquitous TC (twin cam) 1438cc's - 1995cc's was designed by Lempredi. He went on to design the 308 (after Enzo locked him in a hotel room). What Enzo got was basically two Fiat twin cam with a common crank. (well almost). In any cse Lampredi used the same dohc on each bank. The Fiat TC uses the same belt / tensioner arangement. All of the earlier (pre-reverse port - i.e. Thema, Tipo) required balt and tensioner replacement at 5 years or 25,000 miles, whichever came first.These motors are high revers that torture the belts as much as the 308. The belts are about as long also. I don't know how much technology has changed since the first 1438 TC came out and trickled down to modern belt design and materials. Bearing technology most likely is the same, but I suspect a bit better too (how much is debatable). Plus you have to realize that the belt is under tension even though it may not be in use while sitting in the garage. a 30K mile belt change imo is a good idea for this breed on engine. Jeff Davison
In an earlier post, I see Verrell was unable to see the timing belt article on www.VeloceToday.com website, as am I - how does one access the article on replacement of timing belts? Thanks in advance...
I replaced three belts in my Porsche 944 over 75,000 miles. That was a $60 job in the late '80's. When I switched to chains, I replaced a broken camshaft in my BMW after the mechanic (who was changing my transmission fluid) messed around with the chain tensioner and didn't get it fastened correctly. The shop rebuilt my top end for me after the engine blew up 1/2 mile from their garage. Belts or chains? The controversy continues.
The 365GT/4 BB Boxer was the first Ferrari road car to use cam belts rather than chains, not the 308. Back then the belts were advertised as quiter, more reliable, cheaper and easier to service than chains. I have always considered 5 years to be a good time frame to change the belts.
My first Ferrari was an "86 328 with 18,000 miles. Bought it in 2000 and I had the origianl belts changed based on advice from the seller. The seller had all of the service records with the car and the timing belts had never been changed. The old belts when removed looked like new, no wear, rot or cracks. They were hard to tell from the brand new replacements. Traded car for an "86 TR with 4,000 miles. Again these were the origianl belts and based on the advice of the dealer I had them replace the old belts. Same story they looked like new. My question has always been if the belts are not exposed to excessive heat, UV, solvents (oil, gas,) then why would there be a time factor? In my mind the first consideration is wear due to miles. My TR manual does not reference time in regards to replacement just inspection of the belts which seems to make more sence than arbitrary replacement.
