Timing belt(s) issue yet again...

Some of the worst info comes from those that do but I agree with the second half.

 

David,

We were planning on doing the belts and tensioners under any circumstances. As Paul said, the service history of the car is rather sketchy, and there was no record of when the belts were changed last. So, better safe than sorry, and this way, I know for sure when and how it was done. Also, as we had so much other stuff to do, including pulling the air rails, changing all the hoses, timing the cams and changing all seals, and otherwise cleaning up the engine and engine bay.

Thanks for the advice and we'll let you know what we come up with as we go along.

Steve

 

You can say that again.

 

Okay, so if I buy a BRAND NEW belt and replace the tensioners with BRAND NEW ones from hill engineering, you will GUARANTEE that I will not bend any valves for 5 years or 30k miles.

SOLD, now I know I can drive my 348 hard and my valves will be replaced for free if something goes wrong. Whew, I feel a lot better now!

 

What are you crazy?? You've just opened the sarcasm floodgates!!!

I do still enjoy the timing belt threads, being new to the forum. In between the sarcasm and condescending 'what don't you understand about 3 yrs / 15k miles' comments there are some interesting posts...

 

Indeed --- you have to always love the "belt replacement" debates! Short of the subject of abortion, I don't think there is a more controversial topic to Ferrari owners! And it seems that any hopes of ever reaching a consensus are equally doomed!!

To quote Bob Dylan, "You go your way, and I'll go mine"

 

Brian will correct me if I am wrong, but I do not believe he was saying 5 years.

Somewhere way back when, the United States government EPA made it a federal law that ALL cars sold in the US were required to have a warrantee of 50K mile or 5 years, whichever came first, on all polution and polution related equipment, and maintain the car would continue to meet federal air standards through that period.

The problem was that the law was rather vague, and allowed even the engine itself, spark plugs, fuel tanks, whatever you could throw a stick at, to be warranteed for 5 years or 50K miles. Ferrari couldnt very well require the belts to be serviced at owner expense as this could easily be seen as a related piece of emissions equipment.

But the general consensus has been that this caused enough failures for Ferrari to issue TSB's calling for belts to be replaced on a shorter schedule. Ferrari no longer builds cars with belts, IMHO because of many owners complaints of the cost and also owners who neglect the cars. Many people wanted chains so ya'll got chains. And as such Ferrari no longer has to warrantee cars with belts.

3 years is Ferrari's current recommendation, probably the very safest limit to provide virtually zero failures. 5 years seems to be the general consensus among the Ferrari crowd, and anything beyond that period is truly rolling the dice.

And last, I think its been discussed all over the place that what the belts look like after 5 years or whenever, is virtually meaningless. The belts have internal issues that are impossible to witness visually. In fact some posts lately may have found something elusive by a few describing the belts they removed being very soft and supple, something they are not like at all when new.

 

Hardtop, go to the head of the class. When I was busting Ferrari's balls over various warranty claim items on my new Ferraris (discussed in another thread) this issue of the recommended service time intervals came up. I just couldn't resist. I had to ask why the service intervals for items such as timing belts, etc. were different on USA cars and non-USA cars? The answer I got back was the EPA and CARB (California Air Resource Board) issues dictated that. Remember, the EPA and CARB warranty timelines were much greater, up to seven years in California, than a typical warranty. And, what is covered under the EPA rules is pretty extensive. So, if Ferrari had to work on any part of the engine that could be deemed a smog issue, they had to pay, not the customer. Of course, Ferrari still stuck it to the customer most of the time because the customer didn't realize their rights. Witness all the poor souls with F355s that paid for new manifolds, etc. when they really didn't have to if they knew the rules.

Steve

 

Very good point --- whatever replacement interval you choose, just because things 'look' good at the end of the interval, doesn't mean they shouldn't be replaced. Also, periodic inspections before the due time only serve to detect major, atypical problems --- seizing / loose bearings, cuts or serious abrasions on belts, etc.

In the Engineering community, a great deal of effort has been spent to try to correlate drive belt inspection criteria to predicted life. And, belt failure has been conclusively linked to the belts' internal structural breakdown which can be characterized by quantifying the increase in compliance (i.e., how much has it increased in flexibility from its new / design condition). Unfortunately, while we can know analytically, and verify with tests, that a belt is subject to failure at say 60% stiffness loss, there is no practical way to measure the stiffness decrease / compliance increase outside of laboratory conditions --- and even then it tends to not be totally objective and repeatable.

And of course, as you mention, you usually can't tell much about the inside of the belt by looking at the outside of it...

 

I agree...and the tensioner bearings can be inspected and replaced without engine removal for much less than cam belt replacement which on a Boxer,TR, 348 and 355 requires engine or fuel tank removal...which is what Ferrari as well as the writer of the article in SCM recommended be done on an annual basis...

 

That's been my point (albeit rather viciously). Even if you replace the belt and all of the bearings every month, there still isn’t a guarantee that you will not have a failure. In my 25 years of wrenching I have seen too many brand new engines, transmissions, water pumps, bearings, belts, etc. fail. As Finnerty stated, sometimes you just can't tell by looking at them.

The best interval is the one you are comfortable with based on your driving habits, environment, and experience. If you ride it hard and put it away wet, expect to have more problems and higher maintenance costs than the guy that babies his.

I just disagree with the fear tactics used when it comes to statements like “if you don’t change it every X years or X miles, you are going to destroy your engine”. No one knows that, and no one can guarantee that. The truth is you take the chance something is going to fail every time you start your engine.

So take care of your car the best you can, don’t loose sleep over what might happen, and enjoy the experience.

Besides, since so many are seldom driven anyway, it will still look pretty sitting in you garage; even with a blown engine.