Tipo 133F vs Tipo 140C engines

Darius- The F430 engine is an evolution of the F355/360 engine, too, even if a whole lot was changed. 4 vs 5 valves, chains vs belts, VVT on intake and exhaust, twin disc clutch vs single, Motronic 7.1 vs 7.3(.1). Ferrari rarely starts with a clean sheet of paper because their baselines

on engines​

are usually so good.

 

Unfortunately no comparable results .

 

OK, but do you have an after result? Looks like you've been on a dyno anyway!

 

I think the question is really where do you draw the line on 'new'. All engines are built with knowledge of what worked already so they are all an evolution. I differ from Taz on what is new; To me if you changed the block and replaced most everything to accommodate the change, it is a new design. 430 is a different block, different bore, different stroke, different cams, crank, intake, etc. I am not as well versed on the 133 vs 140 but my understanding is that it is completely different block plus all of the associated changes so I would say new.

 

Darius- The Type F116 engines for the 456/456M were the predecessors of the F133 engines. They had 65 degree cylinder banks like the V6 Dinos and some F1 engines, DOHCs driven by belts like the 308s, 4 valves per cylinder like the 308 QV and 8 and 12 cylinder successors, and solid lifters with shim adjustment. The 550 Type F133A engine added hydraulic lifters, dual length intake tract, improved head design, and, believe it or not, milder cam timing.

There is a lot of misuse of the term Colombo engine. We have to remember Vittorio Colombo only worked at Ferrari from the end of WW-II until around 1950, when he went back to Alfa Romeo. The Colombo V12 initially only had 3 head bolts per cylinder, SOHCs, mouse trap valve springs, and no valve stem seals. Ferrari brought in Aurelio Lampredi as a risk limiter when Colombo's designs, supercharged, did not do too well in F1. Lampredi's engines, including his V12, had the cylinder liners attached to the heads, virtually eliminating any head gasket problems. So in this period, Ferraris were either Colombo engines with removable heads or Lampredi engines with the cylinder liners attached to the heads. Both engines evolved and eventually, the screw in liner engines were superseded, although many of their features were incorporated into the removable head engines. Rapidly improving head gasket technology helped the transition.

Since Colombo has not had anything to do with Ferrari engines since 1950, it is a real stretch to call any engine a Colombo engine after the SOHC engines were replaced with DOHCs. The last of those engines were the Type 245 V12s in the 365 GT 2+2 and the 365 GTC, and those were quite different from the original Colombo V12.

If you look in Wikipedia, they have some ridiculous list of engines divided up by Colombo, Lampredi, and Jano. In fact, except in the 1950s and early 60s, features from all these designers were incorporated into Ferrari engines, so it is impossible to say later engines were the result of one designer's work.

John- I tend to disagree completely. Even if the block is different, each of those engines built on what they learned from the previous engine and the design evolved. This is not a case of start all over with a clean sheet of paper and design a new engine.

Darius- The Boxers were effectively Daytona engines flattened out with belt driven cams and I would by no means call the Daytona engine a Colombo engine when the only thing they had in common was a 60 degree V12 with wet liners and detachable heads. The TRs had even less in common with Colombo's SOHC design.

 

Darius- The F512M had less torque than the 575M, 500 Nm vs 588, so not sure what you are feeling. The weight over the rear wheels helps acceleration, but the F512M is actually geared higher than the 575M, which hurts acceleration. May just be they feel and sound different.

 

Darius- Ferrari quotes "kerb" weight at 3815 lbs for the 575M, and 3593 lbs for the F512M, which was a big honker itself. A little over 200 lbs difference/

 

Darius- The Type 140 engines also went to twin disc dry clutches with a much smaller flywheel and clutch diameter. This reduction in rotational inertia is one of the things that makes the engine more responsive. Ferrari bragged about the same thing when they used the 599 clutch and gearbox case (plus F1 Superfast software) when they introduced the 612 OTO.

Like 12-cylinder ENZO FERRARI and Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano models, 612 Scaglietti shall be
equipped with a double-plate clutch, to reduce the rotating mass. The engine response is faster in
revolution changes, with a faster gearshifting and improved acceleration, with an increased driving
emotion. In addition, both flywheel and clutch are lighter and further reduce the car total weight.