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458 Tire Options Size

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by Joff Clarke, Feb 25, 2020.

  1. Joff Clarke

    Joff Clarke Rookie

    Sep 21, 2017
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    Hello Folks
    Is it possible to run 305/30/20" in place of the 295/35/20" . I really don't like the tall sidewall on the 35 ratio tires. I'm also considered running 315/30/20" but worried they would be too big for the stock wheels
    I plan on also lowering on OEM suspension and having an alignment.at the same time.
    Any assistance would be appreciated.
    Thanks
     
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  3. ridege55

    ridege55 Formula 3
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    The width does not seem that much wider and should accommodate. However, the circumference is -3.2% smaller. I don't know if that would be an issue.

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  4. ridege55

    ridege55 Formula 3
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  5. Joff Clarke

    Joff Clarke Rookie

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    Thanks I'm thinking the 305 difference is perhaps too much and the 315's may be too wide for my stock rims. Grrrr
     
  6. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran
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    You probably know this already because you’re asking. But you need to know that the car has a sensitively tuned stabilization control (called side slip control and a variety of other names). Only Ferrari knows for sure what tire parameters are important and what are not, but the sensitivity seems driven by the overall circumference of the tires and the ratios of the circumference front to rear. If you vary from either or both by too much, you may encounter odd handling characteristics or error messages.


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  8. Joff Clarke

    Joff Clarke Rookie

    Sep 21, 2017
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    Gotcha has anyone done this before
    The front tires are 235/35/20 and the rears are 27.2” tall For the 305/30 compared to 28” for the 295/35’s
    Any Ferrari techs out there?
     
  9. Joff Clarke

    Joff Clarke Rookie

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    Btw I just traded my F430 for the 458 wow what a difference
     
  10. ridege55

    ridege55 Formula 3
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    I have a F430 and 458. On my F430 I am running 245/30/20 in front and 325/25/20 in the rear. Offsets are 20x9 and 20x12 with no rubbing and car is also lowered. On my 458 I am running 245/35/20 in front and 295/30/21 in rear. Offsets are 20x8.5 and 21x11 with no rubbing. 458 is also lowered.

    I know that you have stock wheels, but going to 21" in the rear gives you less sidewall and still stay close to stock on circumference.
     
  11. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie

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    Stop stop stop! Don't order anything! Forget the width and all the rest of it. It is a 100% no-go. Many tried it when the Speciale was released. The ESC and ABS system does not work with that much of a difference compared to OE front to rear diameter bias. OE rears are 6% larger in diameter than the fronts. What you're trying to do, is get away with 2.7%. It's a big no.
    Smallest diameter that will work, is 325/30R20. However, the much wider rears will make the car push like mad and understeer into next week.

    Exactly what is your goal? Do you track? Cruise the back roads?
    If you track, I'd suggest getting a set of Speciale wheels and fit them with MPSC2 rubber in 265/30R20 front and 325/30R20 rear. A few dedicated track rats ran that setup in my neck of the woods some years back, and it was a well balanced setup which was much less prone to understeer than stock.
    If you're mostly, or always on the road but you're looking for a bit more width for both looks and bite, MPS4S in 245/35R20 and 305/35R20 is a viable option. This size will fill the large wheel wells nicely, and they will fit the OE wheels.
    Your OE rims can in fact accommodate the F12 set of MPSS should you so desire.
    But again. No to the 305/30 and 315/30.

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  13. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie

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    You have not posted offsets anywhere. You're giving the width and diameter. Offset is how much the wheel centerline is offset from the hub flange inboard or outboard. Stock 458 offset is about -48mm front and -57mm rear.

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  14. mdrums

    mdrums Formula Junior

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    Like Co-Pilota mentioned...this will not work and cause issues.

    the overall tire ratio between front and rear must be with in spec or ABS and other traction systems will not work properly.

    I use to preach this same thing on the Porsche forums and to my track students. There were many that didn’t heed advice and would mount wider tires and wonder why the brakes felt funny and the car didn’t accelerate well..because the car computer thought rears were spinning and applied brakes to rears.
     
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  15. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

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  16. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie

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    Precisely.

    And exactly why I suggest the sizes I mentioned above.

    OP, you need to decide what you are aiming for.
    Both setups I suggested will not affect the ESC or ABS in any way.
    The 265/325 setup only varies 0.7% from stock f/r diameter difference. This is well within the tolerances of the systems. This is less than what is normally caused by wear. The f/r width will go from 25% rear bias to 23% rear bias. On a 458 that is tracked, this will feel super nice as the 458 is a bit prone to understeer. With the Speciale wheels, it will not be a dramatic change which will result in a squirrely and unstable car - especially as the Speciale wheels has 10mm less offset, which will give back a bit of the rear end bias.

    The other setup I suggested using the MPS4S will not change the diameter bias at all. F/r width bias will be ever so slightly moved towards the front, but only with like a half percent.

    Unless you track often, the latter is by far the better choice. A better and newer tyre with both more grip as well as added comfort compared to the OE MPSS.

    Can you run the MPSC2 on the road? Yes, absolutely, but unless it's mostly dry and you generally run your car properly hard, you gain nothing by doing so. The MPSC2 has more grip than the MPSS and MPS4S, but only when properly hot. Fact is that on normal roads, most people do not run an MPSC2 hard enough to benefit from it. Most of the time the tyre temps on the road, even with spirited driving, will be such that the MPS4S or MPSS will have better bite. Below 40c the MPSC2 drops off like an anvil dropped from a crane. Don't get me wrong, it is not dangerous below 40c. I've been in a 488 on a humid 12c day and the car could still be enjoyed and driven properly in Sport as tyres could reach around 40-45c. But a set of MPSS or MPS4S had been a much better choice as temps were mostly around 35c.
    My experience is that if you cannot keep the MPSC2 above 50-55c, don't bother. Then the other offerings will give you better performance. I would like to add that the wider rubber also needs to be driven harder to retain heat, so that's also a factor in your choice.

    So consider your options properly in relation to your needs.

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  17. Skeet3r

    Skeet3r Rookie

    Feb 15, 2020
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    Hello I just bought a set of 458 Speciale rims (9jx20 + 11jx20 / ET-44,7 + ET-48,4) on my 458 Italia. What is best among these 3 options?

    1 - Install the original tires on it. front 235/35/20, rear 295/35/20 ?
    2 - Install the 458 speciale tires on it. front 245/35/20, rear 305/30/20 ?
    3 - Or install a size closer to the original on the rear. front 245/35/20, rear 305/35/20 ?

    I do not intend to track and I would like to go on MPS4S. Thank you ! :)
     
  18. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie

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    I say again. The Speciale tyre size with the 30 rear aspect ratio will NOT work.
    For road use on those slightly wider rims, the MPS4S in 245/35R20 and 305/35R20 is an excellent choice.

    If you like the and feel more "secure" using a Ferrari spec tyre, you can use the Lusso set. Those are the MPS4S 245/35R20 K1 and the 295/35R20 K1.
    But personally I'd go with the 305/35R20 rear option for road use, so as to not change the balance too much. Will handle great as well as give a great level of comfort, and not change the manners in an aggressive fashion.

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  19. Whan

    Whan Rookie

    Sep 4, 2020
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    Reviving a bit of an old thread but do you know if there were any rubbing issues with a 265 30 20 front tire, and if any for a lowered 458?
     
  20. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie

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    You can't fit that size to OE 458 rims. I would suggest the 245/35R20 and 295/35R20.
    The other size calls for Speciale rims.

    How much are you lowered? Do you use spacers?

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  21. Whan

    Whan Rookie

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    #18 Whan, Feb 1, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2021
    I'm actually thinking about getting a set of forgelines built, so want to see what is possible. Car came with 21/22s but thinking about maybe swapping. The wheels I have are actually pretty light for 21/22 but I prefer the look of a bit more sidewall / not too oversize wheels

    Came lowered on factory springs, so not sure how much exactly. Doesn't have a nose lift. Maybe 15mm or so, or 20mm at most?
     
  22. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie

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    Okay. What size tyres do you have on the front and is the current offset and wheel width stamped or engraved inside the wheels?
    Even though the wheels may be light for their size, the rear tyres are quite a bit heavier. You will get much better performance with 20 inch wheels.

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  23. Bluem5

    Bluem5 Rookie

    May 31, 2020
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    I m using the 305 rear option, the car drives fine however when at normal sport driving mode, once i hit 100kph(60mph) the car would immediate apply rear brakes and limit the speed as when traction control kicks in, traction control would flash and speed would be reduced. The tyre shop said this was an issue all normal 458 owners would encounter if they went with the 305 rear. However. If you were in race or ct driving modes this would not happen. Only in sport
     
  24. Whan

    Whan Rookie

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    The tires are 255/30/21 and 335/25/22, and wheel dimensions are 21x9 with +39 offset and 22x12 with +57mm offset

    I don't do much tracking, but do quite a bit of canyon carving. Would ideally like to run PS4S, but in a wider than stock format front and rear without changing the balance characteristics too much from what OEM was. I'm ok with slight understeer bias (as I understand is from factory) given mostly canyon/street driving

    I was thinking about 265/30/20 and 335/30/20 but doesn't seem like PS4S comes in that rear size. Alternatively maybe was looking at 255/35/19 and 315/30/20 but would have to see if Forgeline can make a GTD1 that fits the front brakes in 19, and hoping that the slight change in diameter % differences doesn't mess with the TC. I think the 255/35/19 and 315/30/20 are downsized by 1.7% and 2.4% respectively vs stock (so 0.7% change in net differential)

    @Bluem5, if you're running a 305/30/20 rear with a factory front tire size, then your rear tire has been downsized by 3.3% while the front tire has stayed the same. Likely that's triggering the TC
     
  25. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie

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    This can also happen in race mode. Driving on those,are dangerous. It just takes a bit more speed for itcto react the same way in race. Imagine what happens if you are in race and it starts to rain, and one tyre hits a slippery patch, and the system thinks the car is slipping when it is not. You will more than likely have a very bad day. The fact that the car does not even work in Sport can hardly be considered as "fine".
    I would call it ruining the car.

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  26. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie

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    While the super wide rears might seem tempting, they will affect the cars ability to rotate in a negative way. Thex265/325 bias is very similar to OE bias, i.e very much understeer. You are better off running 265/30R20 and 325/30R20 than the 335. It is just way more tyre than what the car was made for.

    A set of 9x20 in ET41 and 11.5x20 with ET50 would work well. The slight change in offset will help keep the car biased towards understeer. You might want to consider updating the alignment a bit. It does not have to radically change the balance, just make it a bit better suited towards what youvare doing. Would be interesting to learn what your current alignment specs are, especially the camber.

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  27. Whan

    Whan Rookie

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    Thanks, that's helpful. I assume the 19/20 setup in 255/315 widths would also have similar dynamics to the 265/325 in 20, but with the benefit of being able to run PS4S and knowing that the 255s would fit for sure. Will think on it - biggest hurdle would be the difficulty of selling the current aftermarket wheels, and that I actually quite like the design of them, just would prefer a size down at least
     
  28. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Rookie

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    If you want to use MPS4S, here's what I'd do. Get a set of wheels in 9x20 ET42 11x20 ET 48. Then use MPS4S in the following size.
    255/35R20 and 305/35R20. The added radius will make up for the slightly narrower tread, but for road use, they will work better. They will give your suspension a fighting chance on a public road that is not as smooth as a track, as the tyre will soak up some of the small bumps. Unless you are on a track where you can run really hard, you don't nerd a ton of rubber in the width. All you accomplish by that, is making the car less agile. Add -0.3 degrees of camber per side up front and -0.4 degrees in the rear per side, and you will have a setup that is still very friendly, but A LOT more agile than the big meats. The offset of the wheels will help keep the bias towards understeer, but the car will hold the curve better, especially if you add the camber - it will be on rails. Also the wider you go, the harder it will be to keep them hot on public roads.
    That is a simple and super effective way of doing it, and it will still allow you to play around with the 265/325 stuff down the line if you should choose to do so.

    That's what I'd do in your situation.

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