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  1. 365man

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    Moving this thread from the 308 discussion on XWX, and the modernization of current production XWX tires and how that compares to modern BF Goodrich tires (which are not rated for high speed).

    Question: when one says "keep in mind that today's technology and tire quality is 30-40 years better than what came on the car originally." are we suggesting that the XWX is still made with 30-40 year old technology? That is, has anyone asked Michelin if they are using the same old compounds and assembly methods, or are they (I would think so) using more modern compounds and processes? And that presupposes that the BFG is not >20+ years old itself. ??

    I'm in need of tires for both a 4-cam and Queen Mother, and am at a loss: XWX to look good but "firm" riding, versus the BFG which has a low speed rating.

    Curious if anyone has compared the ride of the XWX to the BF Goodrich on a vintage through C/4 model?
    Aloha.
     
  2. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    I've said before that using the BF Goodrich tyres with the low speed rating is dangerous, as it is not just the speeds above 113 mph they are not capable of handling, but also the acceleration, deceleration, braking, lateral forces and otber factors introduced from a high performance car capable of speeds over 113 mph, whether you go over 113 mph or not. You may also void your insurance and are also placing other road users at risk by using tyres not up to the job. They are grossly inadequate. The QM and 275 GTB/4 are capable of speeds above 150 and 160 mph.
     
  3. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Rookie
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  4. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #4 miurasv, Jul 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
    365 GT 2+2 and 275 GTB/4 use full profile tyres, 205 x 15 and 205 x 14 so the 205/70 VR 14 are too small in total diameter for the 275 GTB/4. Even though a 15" tyre is referred to in the text, I could only find the 14" diameter tyre with full profile on the web site. https://www.blockleytyre.com/product/205vr14

    These are VR rated and ZR speed rated tyres may be required for these cars today. The speed ratings changed around the early 199os I believe.
     
  5. JCR

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    This is nonsense.
     
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  6. 365man

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    You’re saying “...the 205/70 VR 14 are too small in total diameter for the 275 GTB/4.“. I don’t think I understand. I have those now. They fit. They’re also in the spec book page in the manual. Please clarify.
     
  7. 365man

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    I have not tried those. Thank you for the suggestion. In lieu of The 215-70 on a 365 GTC/4, I’ve seen the Avon 225/65 R15 99V CR6 ZZ Sport. Those are amazing tires. Expensive. Like rails. But incorrect.
     
  8. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #8 miurasv, Jul 31, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2019
    Notice I had the aspect ratio in bold, which was the 70 of the 205/70 VR 14. They are low profile tyres. The 275 GTB and 275 GTB/4 use full 80 aspect ratio tyres, not low 70 aspect ratio tyres. Diameter and therefore the radius is smaller as the height of the sidewall is only 70% of the width of the tyre, whereas the correct full aspect ratio 205 VR14 has a sidewall height which is 80% (or 82%) of the width of the tyre. The car will sit too low with the 205/70 VR14 tyres and the manual does not specify this tyre.

    Anyway, listen to Dougal from Longstone Tyres in the video, who demonstrates it perfectly.

     
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  9. 365man

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  10. Longstone Tyres

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    I would assume a BFG might give you a softer ride if that is what you are looking for.

    However a XWX will go round corners better and give you more directional stability at higher cruising speeds (and look cool). https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres/ferrari/275-gtb.html

    As a road car I think you would only buy anything other than XWX if it was cheap. Cheaper tyres would come at the expence of handling. in the size 205VR14 it would XWX every day of the week. There is not another good tyre that i know of.

    If you go racing then you need the 15" Borranni https://www.borrani.com/ferrari-wheels/275-gtb-4.html

    Dunlop Racing Crossply tyres are great fun https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/vintage-tyres/dunlop-racing.html crossply racing tyres are so gracefull.

    Then Avon CR6ZZ are great for the track too https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/vintage-tyres/avon-cr6zz.html fantastic grip, Although they are not period and don't look very good on cars from this period, there is plenty of grip. What makes the CR6ZZ worth while as a historic race tyre is that they have a carcass designed with nice rounded shoulders developed to give lovely progressive handling. they are great but not for ride comfort or with racing rubber, longevity.

    If i to choose a car to drive, that i knew had got tyres that had been fitted 5 years ago. i would not choose the one with 5 year old racing rubber!
     
  11. 365man

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    Longstone: What valve stems and tubes do you typically use on the XWX 205 VR14?
     
  12. Longstone Tyres

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    I don't really have anyy doubt that Michelin make the best inner tubes.

    we would use this one https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/offset-valve-michelin-tube-14f.html

    But when you go on our individual tyre pages such as this https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/michelin-classic-tyres/xwx/205wr14-michelin-xwx.html it should always offer you a tube. Our recomendations are based on what is best, not on price. Looking after your credit card bill is up to our customers. However i think for a quality thing like a Michelin inner tube 12 quid is nothing. Its a no brainer.

    in some sizes there are racing tubes with metal valve stems and a nut that locates the stem in the rim. However that is not what Borrani used in period. and a rubber valve stem is better. there is more surface area for the metal valve to be bonded into the tube rather than having a metal stem bonded in. we used to sell more of the metal valve stemed tubbes but found one of our most comon failures was having these metal valve stems pull out of the tube. The Michelin one is excellent it comes with a crystaline chalk coating.

    I guess when it comes to valve caps a plastic one is possibly better, but there is not much in it. the Micheliin tube comes with a plastic valve cap, but these ones we sell look cool https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-tyre-inner-tubes/pack-of-5-classic-valve-caps.html
     
  13. JP365

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    No disrespect meant to Dougal, but how do the Vredestein Sprint Classics compare? I much preferred the P6s and later P4000s over the XWXs in the old days, and am curious about alternatives to the XWX.
    Thanks
     
  14. Longstone Tyres

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    Although the Vredesteins are certainly not terrible tyres. I have taken 2 cars off Vredestein and fitted both of them with Michelin XAS. My Aunties Alfa Spider and my wifes Daimlert V8 Saloon and they were miles nicer to drive with the Michelin. Much more progressive when you gave it some welly and more stable at cruising speed. direct responsive steering.

    When we were first involved with Pirelli producing the 185VR15 Cinturato CA67 https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres/ferrari/250/185vr15-pirelli-cinturato-ca67.html This tyre was OE on 250GTE, 250GT Lusso, Road going 250 GT SWB, series 2 GT Cabriolet 250 and i think the swb 250 California Spider. Basically the early 1960s cars that had 15" wheels, untill Pirelli were able to make 205 section tyres that could withstand that power in 1964 with the 205VR15 Cinturato CN72.

    Anyway when the 185R15 was first made again i had a journalist come round with a Jag. Pirelli came with a proper test driver, who to be frank was a complete anorak. On the race track every lap time would be exactly the same and he could feel if one tyre was down by 1 psi. A real nerd.

    We tested the car. It was a horrible bag of nails. i was suprised that the journalist had brought such an awful car. I was embarassed in front of Pirelli that i had arranged for such a dreadful car turning up for testing. However when we drove it on the Pirelli you could tell the difference, the stability was particularly marked from having a better structured carcass. when you turned, it turned in immediately instead of wallowing in, where the amount the car turned increases after you turn. the precision was there with the Pirelli. I was suprised at how much we could feel the improvement in such a slushy old box.

    there is no doubt in my mind the the Michelin and Pirelli are the best tyres out there. Avon CR6ZZ is good too, but not period so they don't look right and it is racing rubber, so not really what you want on a road car, where they might get a few years old.

    From a fashion point of view, i couldn't bare to look at Vredestein on one of my classic cars. the side wall design is nothing like the understated design they had in the day, and the likes of Michelin and Pirelli keep it to a minimum.

    I understand in sizes like 185R15 where the Vredestein is massively cheaper than the goood stuff, but when the prices are comparable, why would you?

    Do you buy tyres on price?
     
  15. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Nice comparison analysis, Dougal. Could you do something similar for XWX and CN36?
     
  16. JP365

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    #16 JP365, Aug 29, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
    Thank you for the reply. I buy tires based on performance and price. The days of me driving 130+ in the 365 are over; however, I still occasionally go over 100 and want a tire rated for 130+ just in case. My father bought the Queen in 1987 and promptly put on new XWXs two years later he switched to P6s. It was night and day. When P6s went away, we switched to P4000s. Not as good as the P6s but not bad. The XWXs always felt “twitchy” to me. I’ve never had Avon’s on the Ferrari, but I had them on a 400 small block firebird. Great grip, but they wore out in under 20k miles, and yes it was properly aligned. So enter the Vredesteins. I was talking to an e type owner and he loves them, so I thought I’d take a look at them. Still haven’t found a Ferrari owner using them. I’m sure part of my aversion to XWXs is nostalgia or my father’s voice in my ear, but a 308 Dino owner I know said he feels his car “darts” at the slightest turn on XWXs, so I know I’m not completely nuts. That said, looks like I’ll be contacting you this winter about a set of XWXs.
     
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  17. JP365

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    BTW, they seemed alright on the Jag, but looking at that picture, I agree with you that they do look a little odd.
     
  18. 365man

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    Dougal, all good stuff here. Thank you. I ended up with the XWX for my 275; it was a tough choice but, on a 275, I suppose one must try to keep it "right". I must say that the Avon is an amazing performing tire on my C/4. I've had the Avons at just over 150MPH, and they are most smooth. At lower speeds, they corner like a railroad track. I have taken the P4000 on my QM to its top speed without incident, and they perform well but to me don't look right either.
     
  19. Longstone Tyres

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    Beware of historic comparisons. how old were the XWX tyres that your father fitted back in 1987. they were tricky to get then. were they new tyres or something bought at a swap meet?

    I guess Ferrari owners tend not to fit Vredestein because there is a Michelin or Pirelli option in most sizes you would be interested in, and the only reason you would fit a Vredestein is if they are much cheaper. because the Michelin and Pirelli Look right, handle right, and actually are right. so it would only be the money
     
  20. Longstone Tyres

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    I think P4000 tyres have not been made for some time. if you have them on your car i would think it would be worth looking at the date code. Then of course going on the Longstone Tyres web site and buying some fresh tyres https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres/ferrari.html

    I have to flog some tyres because i am racing against some of you 275GTB boys at the Goodwood Revival thiis Saturday.
     
  21. turbo-joe

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    good luck and have F U N ! ! ! :)
     
  22. Longstone Tyres

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    It was fun alright.



    There is some good close up 275 GTB action in the first couple of laps
     
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  23. 365man

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  24. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Very nice. What were you driving?
     
  25. 365man

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    VERY OLD XWX 205/70 VR14
     

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