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To anyone that says MS doesn't fight hard

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by axemansean, Sep 12, 2004.

  1. axemansean

    axemansean Formula Junior

    Jul 11, 2004
    801
    Um yeah!!!

    WOWZER!!!
     
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  3. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

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    What I was starting to wonder about is why do Ferrari even bother worrying about qualifying at all? After Schumi's spin, it basically equated to him starting from the back of the grid. So, what difference does his starting grid position make then? Other than for purposes of personal/team records and PR, he can pretty much take over a race from any starting position.
     
  4. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    That is MS's greatest strength ... and also RB's greatest weakness.

    Pete
     
  5. axemansean

    axemansean Formula Junior

    Jul 11, 2004
    801
    Well I have this theory that MS could win a race even if he gave everyone a 1 lap headstart. I mean he's gone on to do well with only 5th gear, a broken exhaust manifold, after a pit fire, etc, etc, etc. I think he spun on purpose trying to do a 4 wheel slide in preparation for his December rally experience. :D
     
  6. DGS

    DGS Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Have you forgotten the number of times that RB came from the back to pass everyone except the driver that nobody has been able to out-do?
     
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  8. pizzadude

    pizzadude Formula 3
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    I think he could start at the back and do well but by qualifying well and starting up front you are more likely to stay out of trouble on the first lap.
     
  9. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Must have ;)

    Pete
     
  10. speedy_sam

    speedy_sam F1 Veteran

    Jul 13, 2004
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    I wouldnt put it that strongly. As pointed out by DGS Rubens has fought his way from the back - germany 02 and Britain 03.

    But there certainly more times that RB has been "stuck in traffic ... unable to pass" than Schumi...

    Today he did a Schumacher in the last stint. Beautiful, beautiful driving. I always maintain that talentwise Rubens is in the top drawer ... its just that with Schumi as a teammate ... Ruben's special performances happen as often as a wild rose blooming in the desert...
     
  11. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Talent and fighting spirit are NOT the same thing guys.

    Yes RB is a very talented driver ... but most times if something goes wrong at the start of the race, depression/sulking sets in and he is stuck mid-pack.

    Yes a couple of times he has pulled it off ... great, and full credit to the man, but many, many times many other racing drivers have done this and do this everytime they have to.

    You see a racing car is hardly ever perfect ... it is normal to have to drive around problems due to getting say the setup not dead right, etc. RB is only really competitive when the stars align and everything is dead right. Last night at Monza we saw a RB with the pressure off, able to lift his game and race. Brilliant!, but with the pressure on it simply becomes to much for the very emotional man that he is and always will be.

    To take the emotional side out of RB would be very sad, but he won't be a constant winner until he does ...

    Pete
     
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  13. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    May 14, 2004
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    Critcs are worth a dime, a dozen!
    They need to find another sport.
     
  14. moretti

    moretti Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I found Rubens' win just as meritorious, if not more, than MS as Rubens was giving everyone else a free pitstop.

    What all this really says is that the 04 F1 Ferrari is the leader of the field by at least one pitstop so although MS and RB are damn good the car would make a lot of current drivers look just as good in it instead of the pigs they are driving.

    Oh, and the pit work from the maranello boys was first rate
     
  15. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    ... another head in the sand post by imperial83.

    Back in 1995 (or whenever Jean Todt started at Ferrari) the first thing he would have done is analyse where they honestly were at. He then would have been critical of every area of the operation until they raised their game ... that is how one improves.

    Standing there and gushing at every Ferrari win as though they were a God send does not help, improve, or even maintain Ferrari's current brilliance ... just starts the downward slope, ie. we are perfect and need to do nothing to get better.

    I am a Ferrari F1 fan just like the rest of the members of this site ... and I am probing at from where I sit is their current weakness, the replacement for MS. The way I see it, if RB does not improve his game he will not be the replacement ... they will hire another driver and promote him straight over RB. Brawn has even hinted at this already ... thus if anything I am trying to help RB.

    Pete
     
  16. FLATOUTRACING

    FLATOUTRACING F1 Rookie

    Aug 20, 2001
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    What annoyed me today is the same thing that has annoyed me in the past. When RB comes in behind MS there is always some reason.........ie. brakes were going, second set of tires had problems, balance was off, blah....blah...blah.........


    And when he wins I hear the word "I, I, I, ......." In the first questions asked he never once mentioned the team. It was "I this, I this, I this.............."

    Finally Windsor asked RB about the wonderful things the team has done and this is all he could utter:

    "...the team is very well and so this is for them as well, the way they behave, even though we win races. In half an hour we are going to be in a meeting thinking about the next race already so I think that shows how they are strong and how we are behaving with their cars. So it's great thanks to all the team and to all the tifosi ...."

    Granted RB hasn't had the success MS has had but I never hear him talk about the team. MS thanks everyone on the team in each of his wins. I have never heard an MS press conference after he has taken a win where he doesn't say "the team did a great job" or " the GUYS did a great job" or such.

    MS has never forgotten to thank the team and RB has ALWAYS forgotten to thank the team. Had Windsor not asked him about it he would not have mentioned it.

    When RB can't beat MS or someone else, it's always someone else's fault (tires, brakes, balance) but when he wins it's all on his shoulders.

    I hate to heep harping on this but I think if MS retired today and Ferrari still had the dominant car next season, Kimi, Alonso, and JPM would have a better chance at the title.

    Even Senna frequently thanked the Honda guys in his press conferences and he wasn't known to hand thanks out to anyone.

    Just my jaded opinion.

    Regards,

    Jon P. Kofod
    www.flatoutracing.net
     
  17. speedy_sam

    speedy_sam F1 Veteran

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    Yeah Rubens had to be prompted but the questions sort of made him talk about himself.
    Q: Rubens, a great result. Leading by 6.9s at the end of the first lap and then in the pits on lap five.
    Q: You were phenomenally quick in that build-up to what was effectively your third pit stop.
    Q: But then you did have Michael in your mirrors right at the end of the race.

    This time maybe he was rusty as he did not taste victory for 15 races.

    And that he never thanked the team before is a crock of ****, He has done so may not be to the same extent as Schumi.

    Michael is so used to it he can give a victory speech in his sleep. He will worm in a praise to the team thru any question.

    Rubens is a genuinely liked guy by Ferrari - he is a nice guy, warm hearted, fast, capable of winning races (on occasion), speaks Italian, emotional. cut from the same mold as most Italians (except the race winning bit perhaps)

    flatoutracing ... like you I still wonder about how Ferrari will do post Schumi. I think they will get a Raikkonen or Alonso to give them steady results. Rubens will not be able to lead the team by himself...
     
  18. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Totally agree ... and with this also:

    Pete
     
  19. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    I wonder if Robot Raikkonen would fit in with Ferrari. Michael allready has some problems with his image in Italy let alone the iceman.
     
  20. P Charming

    P Charming Rookie

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    #17 P Charming, Sep 13, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    There is no doubt that MS could have caught and passed RB. RB should have been thanking him as well as the team in the end. I agree, RB always has an excuse. Tatcat, you must be loving this gift from MS. Sorry I could not make it to Racer's to catch the race. Catch you next time you are in town. WD
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  21. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    I am sure the management at Ferrari are well aware of continuous improvement and total quality management. Thank God they do not need your help. You would be the guy yelling at the drivers on the podium even if they won all races 1 - 2!!!

    On to China and more Ferrari victories!
     
  22. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
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    Yes, RB does get hung up when he gets up to about 6th place or so... as does EVERY F1 driver with one exception... it is simply very hard to pass in F1. Even MS gets majorly slowed by traffic at those levels... above 4th position, Ferrari generally strategizes themselves around rather than relying on passing.

    If you go back to the last 2 years of racing, RB's "move up through the field" percentage would be as good as any driver in F1 (other than MS... but MS is a phenomenon).
     
  23. watt

    watt Formula 3

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    had an epiphany, have you impy, olde boye??? great to see you doing some self-evalution!!!!
     
  24. LopeAlong

    LopeAlong Formula Junior

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    Jon,
    I have to disagree. As was mentioned earlier, he is very well liked on the team. And the opening questions were very leading. However, I think many of the critics who dislike RB for these failings are also the ones giving him crap about being "weak" for admitting that he is trying new driving techniques, or "making excuses" for saying that he is trying to get his head in a better frame of mind - man, I have heard it all on this board. Slam him for one thing and then later slam him for doing the things you say he didn't do the first time! RB has always been a humble guy. Heck, RB wears it all on his sleeve and that is why I, for one, like him. No BS, you get what you see. AND, if I was RB, I would tend to talk a little more about myself after years of listening to the puke from the press and critics (like those who frequent this board) who go on and on about RB being MS's bu** boy, a Ferrari lacky, not fast enough, "He's going to be replaced NEXT YEAR!", etc., etc. Heck, Ross Brawn just said that RB will replace MS if/when he retires and can not understand why there is any discussion otherwise.

    The only thing that really pissed me off this weekend was Ferrari NOT letting them race it out to the checkered flag. I realize they have done this many times in the past with the roles reversed. However, RB will get no props from the critics until they let this happen. I have already seen postings about how MS would have passed him if they had not received orders. BZZZZZZT! Wrong a$$bags! RB was clicking off times that MS could not touch and there certainly not enough laps left for him to do anything about it - had they let them go at it. When MS slows down at the end of the race and RB catches up, it is just that. But when RB does the same..... I think everyone here knows I am a MS fan, so don't get me wrong. But gees louise, give RB his due on a day when he really kicked some butt! Great job Rubino!

    Jim
     
  25. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    Actually, I was reffering to people out here who do nothing but complain about how F1 is boring and everything is a conspiracy!
     
  26. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Unfortunately Jim we will never know. It is such a great pity that Ferrari will not let their drivers play, especially now when they are the top team and the winners, so surely can relax a little with their over control of the drivers.

    I personally would love to see how RB could handle REAL pressure from MS, and visa versa.

    Pete
     

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