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Tony George declines F1 October race

Discussion in 'F1' started by tifosi12, Jul 5, 2005.

  1. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    In an effort to console the US fans Bernie offered to hold a 20th GP this year on the return from the Chinese GP. It would have been a full F1 GP, but not counting towards the WC. Tony George declined.
     
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  3. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

    Dec 4, 2004
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    With an attitude like that, I don't think he'll want F1 to race at his track in 2006 either.
     
  4. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Fine by me. Happy to see the USGP someplace else.
     
  5. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    HAHAHAHA!

    More like in an effort to continue racing in North America, Bernie has forced 7 Michelin teams to agree to race again at Indianapolis at the end of October.

    Tony George does not want the setup, marketing and promotion costs etc. to come out of "his" pocket.

    Bernie and the 7 Michelin teams botched this one! A NON CHAMPIONSHIP RACE IS NOT THE ANSWER!
     
  6. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Why not?

    Nothing will undo what has happened. True. But a real GP in a relaxed post season atmosphere could go a long way. Imagine they could even give fans a tad more access to the pits/cars/drivers. After all at that point there are no more real secrets to be spied.

    They could have given some of the test drivers a chance to participate in a race. I would have loved it. Think "Marlboro Days Zandvoort". As a pre show event e.g. four Ferraris (MS, RB, Luca, Marc) could have done donuts.

    But no.
     
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  8. don_xvi

    don_xvi F1 Rookie

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    I've sorta spent my F1 energy for the year. I'm not disappointed that the October race won't happen. Just put cash back in my pocket. I'd rather have $105 back in my wallet than to spend hundreds MORE to go to a makeup race with iffy weather. Who remembers the first year? ugh. :(
     
  9. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    Instead of a NC race, with all that money buy out all the seats of next years race and give them out for free.
     
  10. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I do, I was there. And I sat through the rain in Monaco GP that eventually red flagged the race. And rain in Imola and chilly wind in Silverstone. It is part of the allure: Changing weather causes changing track conditions, which adds to the drama.

    I'm a bit bummed. I was really hoping for some "Zandvoort" like event. Also that would have gone a long way to meet Mosley's requirement for a make up with the US fans (remember September).
     
  11. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    The solution would have been to manage the situation on the track better on June 19th!

    1) More information should have been provided to fans on the track about what was happening.

    2) Bernie should have asked all fans to fill out simple forms detailing their expenses and asking if they wanted a refund.

    3) Then the 7 Michelin teams, Bernie, FIA and IMS officials should have met on June 20th to decide the appropriate refunds per fan and a small token of appreciation (free tickets, free shopping vouchers to F1 team stores). This should have been done before leaving the USA! the data gathered from the fans could help decide how to share the expenses between the 4 parties!

    4) At the end of the season there should be a fan appreciation day!
    - At least Six locations should be selected including San Francisco, New York City and Indianapolis
    - Fans should be allowed to touch the cars, talk to the drivers, the team principals and the engineers
    - Free T-shirts, caps, collectables for all fans that turn up
    - Information sessions to show fans the engineering and technology involved
    - A week long viewing of historical races on Network TV

    WHO SHOULD FOOT THE BILL? Bernie E. and Michelin!

    A non-championship race with test drivers and no real value is like spitting in the face of American F1 fans. It is like saying "We could not provided you with a real race but here is non championship track day. have fun... enjoy the travel costs!"

    Drive the cars in the middle of TIME'S SQUARE (NYC)!
    THE FANS CAME TO F1 (USGP) AND F1 SCREWED THEM!
    NOW TAKE F1 TO THE FANS!
     
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  13. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I like your #4, especially the touch the cars part. Even if it is an exhibition car only. I remember the Spanish GP last year: At the end of the weekend I had touched just about every type of F1 car; they had exhibition cars all over the city, was wonderful.

    I would actually be happy to travel to Indy for an exhibition race with the (rare!) chance of watching the test drivers at work. I have seen e.g. MS and RB a gazillion times, but never ever Luca or Marc at the wheel of a Ferrari F1. I'm still thrilled that I once saw Massa at the wheel of a Ferrari F1. Rare sight. Well maybe not going forward...
     
  14. t88power

    t88power Formula 3

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    I wont spend MORE money on airfare, rental car, hotel, food, etc to go to a non-championship race at the end of the year, with seven teams participating. That is not the answer.

    Whatever this useless race would cost the teams, track, Michelin, et al, just divide that by the number of people who attended the race and send us a nice check. That, plus the ticket reimbursement and next years tickets free, may be just enough to entice me back....
     
  15. RocketBoy

    RocketBoy Formula 3

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    Where is this info from? I think the idea is BS and with no point. If I were Fernando after I won the WC, would I care about racing for the good of the fans? No, I'd rather be partying it up with supermodels and my championship trophy while the test driver hits the track. Would super characters such as Irvine and Prost really care what others thought? Unless they are told to do so by contract, I doubt they'd get off their yachts.

    Maybe because I wasn't there my blood isn't boiling, but I could care less what F1 does for the fans. The best I can, and what other people who follow any sport, is hope and click on to those characteristics that appeal to me personally. At no point did any professional sport say they will custom fit the quality of their product for one person or a small segment of disgruntled people.

    All the whines still lingering long after the fact is getting old. I feel sorry for all those who spent a lot of time and money there, but this hope that the F1 really cares about the little people is just not going anywhere. I really doubt we will see Max step down and state, " That damn Fchat petition!" Bernie is in a position to where he doesn't have to care. Besides, how great was the attendance at Indy following the first USGP? Didn't Bernie axe his own home country's GP?

    If anyone really thinks they have a say in how F1 can change and will do so, I will send them the world's most powerful fly swatter to go to Europe and confront the FIA with cause that is the limit to their suggestion. Im not trying to be rude and not sympathetic to my fellow Fchatters' opinions, its just that this issue and hope is too great to tackle.

    RocketBoy
     
  16. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    Why do so many of you guys blame Bernie? From what I've seen and read he had absolutely nothing to do with the problem. The tire problem was 100% Michelin's, the decision not to race was the 7 teams using Michelin tires and the decision not to allow a chicane was the FIAs which is run by Max Mosely of whom Bernie has no control whatsoever. Bernie is the one person that without whom there would be no F1 racing. He has pulled himself up from a used car salesman to one of the wealthiest men in the world. Why do so many people resent his success?
     
  17. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    The idea was mentioned during Speed TV's broadcast of the French GP and the decline by Tony George was reported by Swiss Blick (www.blick.ch), a reliable and fast source.

    I think especially the Michelin teams would be happy to do something positive, if for no other reason than to avoid FIA penalties in September. And once you do a fly away to China, it doesn't cost that much extra to stop over on the way back.

    Besides: Don't look down too much on non WC races. GP racing was alive and well for decades BEFORE there was a driver's championship. And even in all the WC years, "exhibition" races continued to happen. Those are still real races. A lot more real than what we saw in Indy last month.

    I might be wrong on this, but I thought the famous Donington race that Senna won over Prost and others, was actually just an exhibition race (going out here on a limb with my leaking memory).
     
  18. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Bernie didn't cause the problem and his hands were somewhat tied by the FIA's refusal for a chicane. However Bernie IS F1 and he is normally THE man to sort messes like this out. After all Bernie and Mad Max go back many years and have been pals for a long time. It is hard to understand, that he a) let the USGP mess happen (even if it wasn't his fault) and b) that he didn't even try to alert the public etc. So he is not without blame.

    As far as why people don't like him? Well first of all your lovely story about his success misses a few very checkered parts and second he has never been one to take prisoners (ask Obrist what happened to his Ferrari collection). And Bernie has turned F1 into what it is today. For better ($$$) or worse (less access for fans). Those who remember the eighties and before aren't so thrilled about the supershow we see today.
     
  19. Formula 1

    Formula 1 Formula 3

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    Vegas here we come :D
     
  20. Koby

    Koby Formula 3

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    I didn't like the NC race either. I can't imagine too many people wanting to spend all the money for travel and accomidations again. A NC race after the championships have been settled would be rather anticlimatic and after 19 races this year, I think I for one will have had enough F1 for a few months.

    They way to proceed is to through refunds/free tickets next year.
     
  21. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    The way some of the moronic fans acted after this years USGP throwing bottles and such of the track in front of F1 cars going almost 320kph, I wouldn't blame the FIA if they refused to race at Indy again...or in the USA for that matter.
     
  22. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Interesting: It sounds like I was about the only person who liked the idea of the NC race. "World to Andreas: Hello, reality check!"
     
  23. RocketBoy

    RocketBoy Formula 3

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    As Barney says, "You're special!"... Don't fret Andreas, those that are Fchat vets know you have a love for racing and history. I think people are either too fed up or just realize the score beyond the anguish. I like Frank's Vegas suggestion. Why put a prestige race in the heartland? If a tie to autos is so key, why not Detroit or even the home of the first official car race, Chicago? The best US connection to F1 I can remember is when a disgruntled soon to be axed Ford employee asked out going Ford CEO who is the highest paid employee the chairman replied with hesitation, " I guess it would be me." Where the employee fired back, " No, its somebody named Irvine."

    F1's chance of growing US popularity is hanging on by a thread and stuck in a "hands off" mindset. I really hope they place F1 in a surrounding that fits it more and gives it a little more attractive elusiveness than Nascar or Sprint Cars. I say Vegas or NYC. I think it needs better character. Champ king Forsythe is based in Illinois and no one even knows that. So why would anyone from Fargo, North Dakota care who the f**k Giancarlo Fisichella is? If you make it seem like Fisi is a racing God like Grace Kelly is a screen legend, then they will impressed more than appaled when they can't their autograph beside Uncle Bobby Joe's Winnebago in the infield.

    RocketBoy
     
  24. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    Andreas,
    Why are you stuck on the idea of a non-championship race? First it is time to give the American Fans a chance for some hands on F1 experience.

    Here is an idea:
    You know those Million Dollar motorhomes that every F1 team has. Bring them over to the USA in October. Park them outside the top 10 malls around the USA. Spread them out to cover a large area.
    Hold a fan appreciation day!!!

    Let children and teenagers sit in the cars for photos.

    Give a Ferrari or McLaren flag to an 8 year old and see what a fan he becomes. My father did it to me!

    Use this whole show to build a fan database. Ask the fans to write down their address and phone number for a prize drawing. The prize: 10 VIP passes + travel expenses + spending allowance to the next USGP.

    Then take all the names you get and send them a free monthly F1 magazines with information on F1, history and future analyses. Send anoth 1,000 lucky winners F1 DVDs.

    I think I can make the fair assumption that most of us on the board can affoard to spend $4K on another F1 weekend. But the common fan is not likely to spend another large ammount traveling to another FARCE (non-championship USGP)!

    Take F1 to the fans! Don't force the fans to spend more money to come to you!
     
  25. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

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    Agreed. Its like traveling to Florida to see Exhibition games. I'm sure some people do, but they won't fill the stands with people who have to travel there.

    I never thought I would agree with IMPERIAL 83 about anything but his idea about fan appreciation day(s) is outstanding. Select tracks around the country and send one or two teams to each one for a one-day simultaneous dose of F1. Layout the paddock, put on the displays, run demonstration laps with NASCAR sleds agains F1 cars, etc, etc. It would be like an F1 invasion.

    Just goes to show you never say never.

    And Andreas brings up a good point about Bernie. Sure from a simplistic point of view Bernie was an innocent bystander. But he's been the sport's main facilitator/architect/agitator when its suited Bernie so what kept him on the sidelines when he could been pressuring the Team Managers into submission? I think Bernie failed the fans immensely.
     
  26. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I like Imerial's fan apprecation days as well.

    I asked myself the same question about Bernie. Here my possible answers:
    a) he has become a senile and powerless bystander
    b) he wanted Michelin to look bad so they might get out of F1 => 1 tire supplier goal achieved
    c) the USGP contract with Indy ends, a bad reputation of IMS strenghtens Bernie's position in contract negotations
    d) Bernie wants to move the USGP to a US coast

    My pick would be d) and he didn't realize how badly it could backfire.
     
  27. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    What is in it for the teams, drivers, sponsors, et.al. to have a non-championship, "Fly Away" event at Indy at the end of the season?

    The teams go straight back to their headquarters in Europe and start getting down to the business of 2006. Drivers who's contacts have ended are busy scrambling to put new deals together.

    Sponsor's budgets are likely exhausted for the year by the time Monza rolls around and would be nonexistant. The whole thing would be a bigger debacle than the June 14 USGP. Especially so if a driver were to be seriously hurt or killed on the Indy track which clearly is not up to F-1 standards.

    For sure, F-1 needs to go on a major "charm offensive" but clearly, a non-championship event is not the answer.

    BHW
     
  28. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    How come? The track is fairly recent and they did huge changes to accomodate modern F1 pit requirements. Safetywise they just expanded the safer barriers which did a nice job catching Ralf. Again.

    You can say a lot of bad things about the Indy track (e.g. boring, no elevation, not challenging), but it is one of the most modern tracks. Many other tracks would get the axe first (e.g. Imola, Silverstone to name a few).
     

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