TR possible gear box broke. Need help!!!!!!!!

+1. 9 months is more than enough time for FoS to straighten your TR out 100%.

But, right now, I'd advise being friendly with FoS. Until you don't have to be, then take it ugly.

Hope it works out for ya!!

 

+1

Wait to hear the diagnosis.

After I read your letter, to me, it sounded like you're looking to blame someone for your troubles. But I understand you're frustrated.

Looks like the only thing FoS did wrong was take too long.

Keep in mind, it's your 20 year old car. Not somebody elses can of worms. It's your can of worms.

I'm not trying to sound harsh, just trying to remind you it's an old car and anything can go wrong at anytime.

 

The weakness of the Testarossa differential is a well known problem. Do a search and you will find multiple threads regarding the issue.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112201&highlight=tr+differential

It is basically a grenade waiting to go off, in any early TR at any time. Ferrari recognised the fault, and addressed it in the 512TR and 512M.
Modena Engineering also make a good quality replacement unit.

The fact that you were able to drive the car 30 trouble-free miles indicates that the final failure did not occur until you heard and felt the "Hard thump"

Sorry to say, but you probably have a $15-25k repair bill (transaxle rebuild/replacement) ahead of you.

 

This could be blamed on the accident...if the diff is bad, call your insurance and have the car totalled, and start again. Hitting a 4x4 at speed definitely would shock your diff...

Call your insurance agent!

 

Having had this happen to my TR @ 85K miles I totally agree with the above.

 

Compare the event with this TR to an aircraft. An aircraft lands on a runway at night, and unbeknownst to the pilot, a 4X4 is lying in his path. Striking the 4X4 with the front wheel, the nose gear wheel is bent, the 4X4 is thrown into the belly causing structural and cosmetic damage, and upon inspection it is found the propellor has impact damage that caused a small crack at the tip of one blade. The blade cannot be repaired and must be replaced. Because there was a prop strike incident that damaged the blade beyond mere correction with a file, FAA/FAR rules generally require the engine be fully disassembled, the crankshaft and rods checked for cracks and straightness, case checked for cracks, chipped gear teeth, etc., etc.. This is required because of common knowledge that in severe cases of prop strikes, cranks get bent, twisted and cracked. Its a no brainer.

The weakness of the TR gearbox differential is well known in the community. But of all people, a Ferrari dealership should know even better. I cant believe a dealership could bring in a car of this calibre that had stuck an object hard enough to bend wheels, crack suspension arms and twist the chassis, and not imagine it could have done mechanical damage. Thirty miles isnt very much of a drive. One would have hoped the car had been driven and sorted out before being returned to the owner, yet it appears time and again the car had issues repeatedly overlooked. I feel that given the impact damage done to the car, the gearbox should have been inspected. It is my understanding the differential can be removed with the motor in the car, so inspection shouldnt have been awfully expensive. Regardless, they didnt inspect it and now its probably busted.

IMHO, the dealership should take responsibility for the repair, especially seeing they had the car for the better part of a year. I would hope after that length of time that they would guarantee thier work to cover the car past 30 miles. You would get a better warrantee that that from the TV repair guy down on the corner.

 

I've got to agree with Art and Bo. A failure 30 miles from the dealership points to a repair problem or a fault from the initial accident, whether it's a locked up brake or a broken differential (even though that's a known failure point on TR's).






(and there's a new engine sitting in my Mooney from such a prop strike, Art)

 

It would be great (for you) if you can get someone else to pay for it.

The fact that the shop put 63 miles on the car while they had it (apparently without trouble) seems to let them off the hook as far as overlooking a problem. A fair amount of test-driving is to be expected and this doesn't seem like too much.

While removing and disassembling the gearbox was a good idea and MAY have uncovered the weakness (we still don't know what it is) it would have been expensive and was probably a judgement call based on what appeared to be good function. It may have been a problem for them to get paid if no trouble was discovered.

Absent some more obvious sign of negligence I think your best chance is to work WITH the shop to sell the problem to the insurance company as part of the original damage.

See the thread from several months ago regarding the T/R that had a damaged gearbox from a transport mishap.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=155030

 

The timing of the gearbox going basically right after the accident, argues for the two being related. The guy only drove 30 miles. I don't see how the insurance company can say the accident didn't cause the failure...

What was the repair bill so far?

Call the insurance agent, see what they say...

$25,000 for a failed diff would make me cry ...or at least lay down in the fetal position...and moan.

I know that these are big boy toys...but...seriously. Who wouldn't be disturbed if suddenly one of your belongings required a repair that was HALF its value....

I don't care if its a chevy, a house, or a lawnmower....if you really have to spend $25,000 to repair it...consider selling it AS IS on ebay. You would likely recoup more money...

 

+1 There have been two 348's with bad engines that sold on eBay for far more than they were worth. You could probably sell it for well over $40K as is, in which case your $$$$$ ahead. In that other TR blown gearbox thread it was nearly $30K to fix, thats just insane. Youll never see that money again.

 

Did that include the rear window, misc. bodywork, both tires and wheels, and everything else up to the diff problem?

If so, it seems pretty cheap to me -

I guess I have some insurance questions here:

a) - is an insurance claim involved?
b) - if insurance is involved, then why not try to total the car?
c) - if insurance is not involved, then why not?

I feel the pain, believe me I do - but sometimes you just have to flush the toilet and walk away.

 

+1

 

This failure is well documented in the 512/TR forum with one of the many threads being "Has anyone had the dreaded transaxle/diff failure?"
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132047

The current President of FCA-NWR region had the rear end failure and the same dealer you mentioned, Ferrari of Seattle did a great job repairing his TR. I didn't have the guts to ask Will D what FoS charged, but rumor in the club claims it was $24k. Looking at others posting here, this isn't out of the norm for the price of the repairs.

While it is uncomfortable to have this happen to anyone, Pasquale, Roberto and Tino of FOS do run a very good shop although the 9 month duration is quite uncommon. I wonder if there is more to the story on why there was a delay (parts perhaps?)

You've posted this before and I recall the well known Ferrari TR specialist/owner Rifledriver concurred, although a search doesn't reveal the thread...

If you're going to go that route, you could possibly save some money by removing it yourself and shipping it to Rod Drew of FAI in Costa Mesa, CA for him to rebuild.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=136327660&postcount=58

I've known Rod for 22 years and if he does it then it will be done right. I'm not sure I read the thread correctly but I believe it states the T Rutlands has Rod do all of the TR diff rebuilds for them, so you'd be cutting out the middleman.

 

Holy crap,
now that is one violent impact!

I now think that the posts about calling your insurance company about the accident are right on.

I'm glad that you and anyone riding with you are safe and did not have any injuries from the suspension failure or glass that could be flying.

 

This is an insurance claim, plain and simple. The accident caused the failure. I recall someone here had a 308 in an accident that made the belt jump a tooth and totaled the engine. Because the engine blew as a result of the accident, he got full compensation. Your case seems the same to me. I'm sure the diff MIGHT have been ready to go anyway, but with all the damage your car had, they'd have a hard time proving it. The most likely scenario is the impact caused internal damage that then let go. You might need a lawyer, but in then end you should win the case.

Ken

 

Provided of course that you had/have comprehensive coverage...hoping so.

 

Wow, the impact caused the rear window to break!

From the sound of it, I would have to say that even though the TR differential has a know weakness, the accident is what pushed it over the edge.
I would do everything in your power to have the insurance company cover the repair costs. They are not going to be happy when they see the quote for the repair bill.

 

They will also not be happy with the fact that it occurred over 9 months ago, you already had it repaired before their adjuster could examine it and the bill has already been paid.
Ask FOS to support you and elevate this to an insurance claim

Would anyone who owns a Ferrari not have insurance when on the road?

 

Not me, for sure. But I was thinking that some cash buyers might just get the legal liability, and take their own risk...not having to answer to their bank, who would assuredly demand good protection of the investment.

 

My advice to you would be to be very careful what you say here or write to anyone before you know the full facts. What is a potential insurance claim today may turn into a lawsuit if not handled correctly by all parties involved. The facts as they develop along with the significant repair bill could justify legal action if the shop or the insurance carrier does not behave as the facts dictate they should. You don't want something that you said, which was just a guess at the time, to be turned against you latter to support a denial of your claim, whether your claim is against the shop or your insurance carrier. I know it feels good to vent, but it may not feel so good later.

Hopefully, the grenade scenario will not come to pass and if it does that all parties will handle the matter professionally and no legal action will be required and you are back on the road in your beautiful car.

 

That's very good, very thoughtful advice, Lloyd. Nice show!