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Tubi vs Capristo for 355

Discussion in '348/355' started by plapham, Nov 29, 2003.

  1. plapham

    plapham Rookie

    Nov 28, 2003
    18
    Indianapolis, IN
    I have a 98 355F1GTS and am considering Tubi vs Capristo exhausts. Anybody have both or heard both? Comments would be appreciated. I understand this is very subjective but would appreciate the input to assist my decision. Have talked to Heiko and listened to his Capristo video - very nice! Also, is it worth replacing the cats with test pipes? Thanks.
     
  2. t88power

    t88power Formula 3

    Feb 19, 2001
    2,396
    Puerto Rico
    Full Name:
    Ernesto
    I would go with the Tubi and cat pipes, the setup I have on my 360M. The sound is amazing. Should be similar or better on the F355.

    Ernesto
     
  3. 355f

    355f Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    305
    as per prvious theads- do not remove the cats!
     
  4. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
    3,637
    Los Altos Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Gary B.
    To my ear, the Capristo has the edge, at least in the 360. I assume the 355 would be the same.

    Gary
     
  5. tonyc

    tonyc Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2003
    1,472
    Monterey, CA
    Full Name:
    Tony C
    Hi plapham, I just went through this a few days ago. After speaking and listening to the movie files, I really liked the sound of the Capristo better than the Tubi. I called my mechanic to see how his schedule was.

    I sent him the pictures of the Capristo and he said he would refuse to install it because of the holes in the outer casing and the way the vertical mounts hold the pipes. He said water or dirt would get inside, between the muffler and the outer case.

    The mechanic said that when gunning the engine it tends to move a little and that would cause a torque on the pipes between where the muffler is connected to the engine and where the vertical mounts are. Without personally inspecting how it is made and mounted I would not know. It could be that the mechanic has done 355/tubi installs and does not want to learn something new :). Heiko was great and very helpful. He answered about 20 questions. I will order one or the other Monday, just have to decided Capristo or new mechanic?.... :)
    good luck!
    --tony
     
  6. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
    3,637
    Los Altos Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Gary B.
    I'm no mechanic, but I've spoken with a well-respected local ex-dealer mechanic (owns his own shop now) who installed a Capristo and was very impressed with it. FWIW.

    Gary
     
  7. johnw

    johnw Formula Junior

    Jun 19, 2002
    438
    toronto
    Full Name:
    john
    why not? i have the cats off on my 360. it's AMAZING!
     
  8. Russ Birch

    Russ Birch Formula Junior

    Oct 31, 2003
    437
    Clearwater, FL
    Full Name:
    Russ Birch
    Tony C---Ditch that mechanic ASAP. Going on a picture?

    The Ferrari mechanics (two) and my friend Webb (who is a highly regarded race car and mechanical design engineer) all are stunned by the design, execution, and function of the Capristo exhaust.

    I HAVE the Capristo and would recommend it to anyone who wants a crisp, clear F1 style sound. The build quaility is a notch above anything else on the car.

    Russ
     
  9. 355f

    355f Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    305
    Ok, this is a subject that been discussed at great length in previous forums.

    It sounds noisy when you remove the cats for sure and if thats an 'improvement' thats up to personal opinion.

    When running a car with OBD2 and you remove the cats the way the vehicle is fuelled and parametered changes.

    When running these engines on a dyno it shows that firstly, they lose torque across the range and secondly that the settings that the motronic system puts in its place are simply too far from expected parameters. In the engines we worked on they all ran lean at high RPM.

    There is NO HP increase and probably a loss, cats are not restrictive in the same way they were 10 years ago and the motronic systems are programmed to work with them - not without!

    I suppose if one likes the sound and one 'feels ' the car runs better as many claim thats up to them, in the long term the consequences of lean running at high RPM- well as I said its up to the owner!

    Im my opinion a tubi is fine on its own ( providing you dont mind the resonance at 2/3 K) there are NO HP gains and a slight torque loss with that. With test pipes in my opinion only its far to loud!
     
  10. tonyc

    tonyc Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2003
    1,472
    Monterey, CA
    Full Name:
    Tony C
    Not so easy, next closest that I know of is several hours away :-(. Other than he is a very opinionated Italian, he is top notch.

    I am going off of the pictures and sound files. I heard a Tubi on a 355 in person, at idle I thought it sounded a little like a rattle as if something was loose. I have not heard a capristo and 355 in person but really liked the low rumblings of the Capristo on the video.

    Thanks Russ that is good to hear! I will make up my mind by Monday morning!
    --tony
     
  11. 355f

    355f Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    305
     
  12. tonyc

    tonyc Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2003
    1,472
    Monterey, CA
    Full Name:
    Tony C
    Hey 355f, are you saying that even the Capristo and the Fuchs may have that sound at idle and not just limited to the Tubi?
    --tony
     
  13. 355f

    355f Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    305
    Its very common for the bypass valve to be faulty and a different exhaust makes it worse.
    Answer is to check it does not rattle when the exhaust is installed, I have heard many sports exhausts that sound awful especially at idle and ruins the sound.
     
  14. plapham

    plapham Rookie

    Nov 28, 2003
    18
    Indianapolis, IN
    Thanks guys. It's all about the sound and by the response (and Heiko) I think the Capristo is the winner. The cats are not so subjective and I will leave mine as I see no reason to jeopordize the engine integrity and have no desire to mess with the ECU. I was hoping to hear from someone who had heard both Tubi and Capristo with comments - hello?
     
  15. plapham

    plapham Rookie

    Nov 28, 2003
    18
    Indianapolis, IN
    Russ - Since you've had the Capristo ever do a side by side sound comparison with someone who has Tubi?
     
  16. plapham

    plapham Rookie

    Nov 28, 2003
    18
    Indianapolis, IN
    Ernesto - Since you have Tubi ever done a side by side sound comparison with someone who has Capristo?
     
  17. t88power

    t88power Formula 3

    Feb 19, 2001
    2,396
    Puerto Rico
    Full Name:
    Ernesto
    No, sorry. I don't know anybody with the Capristo. People who hear my car just go out and buy the Tubi.

    Ernesto
     
  18. Russ Birch

    Russ Birch Formula Junior

    Oct 31, 2003
    437
    Clearwater, FL
    Full Name:
    Russ Birch

    Oh yes. The guy with the Tubi has an '02 Spider,(California blue over dark blue interior...VERY nice!) He and some other friends heard me pull in to the parking lot of a local hang out last week. He just stood there and looked stunned. I showed him under the hood. He asked for Heiko's phone number.
    Later that evening, I pulled out of the parking lot and goosed it through 2nd gear up to 8500. The next night when we went back to the parking lot my friend Carmine said that Gil, the owner of the '02 Spider was depressed. He had just spent $4800 to buy the Tubi and have it installed and now he wants to tear it out and buy the Capristo. Carmine said that my car sounded like an F1 car from a half mile away.

    I am VERY pleased with the sound. Hope this helps.

    Russ
     
  19. 355f

    355f Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    305
    Im in a position of having a tubi and thinking of capristo instead.

    the problem is that many of these posts relate to the 360 and thats a different ball game, to me the sound of a 360 with tubi is very loud and seems a bit 'manufactured' somehow.

    So what we need is 355 owners to contribute- NOT 360 owners.
    I mean its like asking what its going to be like on a 355 and someone responding- yes, its great on my 996!! so what!
     
  20. How do you know that the car was lean at high RPM?? The only way to know if it was lean is by sampling the the exaust gas pre-cat. In theroey, if your O2 Sensors are in your test pipe (like on the Tubi test Pipe), the upstream O2 sensors is still sending accuarate information in a closed loop mode. The down stream O2 sensors thinks that the cat is not catalyzing HC. So if your cat is not catalyzing HCs, then on a OBII car with cats still on the car it would run lean??? That does not seem correct.

    By removing the cat, it is slightly less restrictive than the OEM "Brick" type catalytic converter. Are you saying that the nominal decrease in back pressure is causing the car to run lean at high RPM????

    I have had my Tubi on for about 5 months. I have had the Tubi plus the test pipes on for about 2 months (and 800 miles). There is no Check Engine Light, and absolutley no derease in top end performance (ie, running lean at high RPM).
     
  21. 355f

    355f Formula Junior

    Nov 1, 2003
    305
    Firstly, these engines were run on a dyno, which is the only accurate way of determining engine performance and parameters, putting it under loading, not by sampling exhaust with no load. It also means that one can insert correction factors to cover variations in temp and inlet charge temp ect. Modern cats are not restrictive to the point it makes any difference to perfomance. Also so called free flow' airfilters do nothing for performance. So its an industry founded on marketing hype really.

    If the cat is not operational one gets it fixed! I have all the results the engines and there are several posters on here who have significant expertise in this sector who confirm the findings

    With the engine running lean at high RPM you will not notice a difference in performance, in fact running lean it might even appear to run better! but facts are this is not an ideal condition.

    Im pleased you have no check engine light, obviously the straight piece of pipe is a match for all the brains that developed the M5.2 motronic !!
    and im pleased you have noticed no lack of performance.

    Thats your experience over a short period and I hope it continues to be so, but facts are facts!! and one cannot play around with induction and exhaust backpressure without the substantial muti million dollar budgets to know what the engine is doing! and being able to alter the management system parameters which few are capable of doing.

    I have had many mails to this effect;

    I have had test pipes on my 355/360 for many months, im very happy ectect!! GOOD! with respect thats not the point!
     
  22. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ

    Aug 22, 2002
    10,078
    i believe there is a benefit to not having the cats...the car runs a bit cooler and isnt as prone to damaging the heads...the cats keep alot of that heat in and around the heads which are know for cracking on 355s..
     
  23. speedy pete

    speedy pete Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    210
    darkside of the moon
    Full Name:
    Pete B
    So from what I'm getting out of this thread is if I buy a 3 to 4K exhuast for my 355 I'll get less torque and a lot more cabin noise. I just can't justify the expense, why not use that 4K for a set of Brembo brakes and actually FEEL a performance increase. Now you can go in deeper and come just as hard. All parties concerned will have a great ride! Just my 2 cents, I mean 4K.
     
  24. It may not give you ANY performance gain but for $4K you are not just getting noise. You are getting a sweet F-Car/Psudeo Formula 1 sound!

    A Harley sounds like a... well a Harley.

    A "Crotch Rocket" Japanesse bike sounds..well like a crotch rocket.

    Tubi Exhaust... That is exactly what an Ferrerai should sound like. It is unbelievable!!
     
  25. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ

    Aug 22, 2002
    10,078
    i have a tubi with the tubi test pipe...best couple grand i have spent...well worth it...i noticed the car breathes better up top where it likes to be....no idea if it has affected the 0 to 60MPH but i never really drive below 60 anyway...and the sound is orgasmic...much cleaner and nicer than before...

    with respect to the brake comment, makes alot of sense if you are tracking the car but in daily steet driving the stock breaks or more than adequate...

    my $.02
     

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