News

TUNNEL RATs in Boston

Discussion in 'New England' started by racerx, Jan 19, 2004.

  1. racerx

    racerx Guest

    Nov 23, 2003
    879
    Just thought i would pass along some info i found on a bmw board to help you boston area guys out. Here are some comments;

    " Just an FYI, lately I have been seeing a ton of speed traps in all of the Tunnels around Boston, specifically the City Square Tunnel, and South and North bound on 93. I know that Peter knows about these. I think when it gets cold all the cops decide to run traps to get out of the elements. Last night I saw around a dozen cars pulled over in the new South bound tunnel of 93 around 12am by about 6 Troopers. Luckily I was not one of the dozen cars that got pulled over."
    "I saw a trap going to WOW last weekend in the southbound tunnel. Not to mention the multiple cameras in the tunnels."
    "I hate mass cops. Theyre such dicks

    Not to mention the new tunnels SUCK. They feel like theyre 10 yrs old already!! Billions of dollars and those idiots still don't know how to pave a flat road."

    "yeah, I heard alot about speed traps due to the rumours of 'high speed runs through the tunnels'
    bastards"

    So stay on the lookout.
    T
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. bostonmini

    bostonmini Formula 3

    Nov 8, 2003
    1,881
    any safe 150+ places? i only know of the pike...and even that is dicy...
     
  4. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
    6,099
    MA USA
    Full Name:
    Mr. Doody
    none of the public roads in this state were engineered for 220 feet per second.

    take your car to a private race track or other appropriately engineered pavement (eg: air strip) and enjoy it there at those speeds.

    let's say you came around a bend at which point you saw something of concern. if it took you a few seconds to evaluate the situation and decide to slam on the brakes and then a few seconds to get from a non-manouverable 150 down to, say, 70 you've easily gone a quarter mile, maybe a half mile before you get to 70 depending upon what decisions you make.

    either way, that's a long distance, and i don't think there are many sections of the pike that have that kind of unimpeded straight-line visibility (and you have to factor in the ramp to 150 and the ramp down from 150 - so you really want like a mile of clear-ahead visibility).

    and the scary thing is that most people do this sort of stuff at night, which is suicidal/murderous depending upon what happens.

    the funny thing is, it'd be cheaper to ship your car to and from europe and enjoy the autobahn et. al. ($10K for a week of fun) rather than the resultant legal costs and penalties you'd end up incurring if you actually got tagged.

    and i'm not claiming i'm a saint either. it's just not smart stuff to do.

    doody.
     
  5. racerx

    racerx Guest

    Nov 23, 2003
    879
    I am not a top speed guy but since you guys are taking the thread that way i will post some things here.
    Doody what is the difference in tar composition between a back road somewhere in VT/NH, I-91, and Michigan International?

    Repost
    2 quick points
    A)there is absolutely nothing morally wrong with driving fast
    B)No one with a brain does it in a populated or residential area


    That said I took this from a fellow 928'r i know who said it as good as it can be said;
    "t seems like people look at speeding as something you do once, furtively,
    and then shut it down, and thank your lucky stars you did not crash.
    Or that the 928 should only be "used" to it's full potential on a racetrack.

    Which is excessive paranoia about the ability of our cars.
    The 928 was built to be able to cruise all the way across
    Texas, Montana, flat farm country, or the deserts of Arizona,
    at those speeds, and have no serious risk, or problems...

    Yes, accidents happen.
    Yes, cars can be deadly.

    But we have chosen to drive a car capable of extreme speeds.
    If you buy any exotic car, it was meant to be driven fast.
    The 928 was meant to be driven fast over long distances...
    On the highway. On the autobahn...

    They weren't built for the racetrack.

    If you feel the need to install a full cage, fire system, fuel cel, and all that stuff,
    that's fine. But if it is all in the name of safety, you might as well be driving a Volvo.

    Fast cars *are* inherently dangerous, and most of us know that, and accept that risk.

    If someone is unwilling to accept that risk, then they should stick to a Volvo on
    the street, and a 928 with a full cage on the racetrack. But most of us drive these
    cars on the street 95% of the time. And we have purchased a car that was meant
    to be driven fast, and built to handle it...

    I see no problem with speeding responsibly.

    I picked a car that is well-suited for that purpose.

    There is a balance between safety, and restricting your speed excessively.
     
  6. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
    6,099
    MA USA
    Full Name:
    Mr. Doody
    for the avoidance of doubt, i have zero problem with individuals behaving in ways that risk their own property and well being. it's a free country and if you want to drive a motorcycle without a helmet, or swallow drano for fun, or skydive, or whatever --- hey i don't have a problem with that! have fun!!!!!

    the problem is that on a public road you're interacting with, drum roll please, the public. 220 feet per second is a potentially deadly speed to other people. and that's when it gets really messy.

    the makeup of the pavement is the least of the issue (though race track s are built differently than highways are). what matters is that public highways have potholes, trash, debris, rough seams, deer, and other nasty things that no private track generally has.

    all these variables mean that any driver's ability to control a car at 150mph on a public road is a mere fraction of their ability to control that car on a purpose-built track. and failure to control can seriously and adversely affect innocent bystanders.

    doody.
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. racerx

    racerx Guest

    Nov 23, 2003
    879
    Lightning strike please, Doody, doody, doody, see point B in post above. When i do go all out (at what my car can handle)it is in the country when there are no people, cars, civilization etc. It is not through weston or sherbourne or inside the 495 beltway. Your argument is pointless. Hopefully we can get some rides going this year like the ones i was on last year in VT and NH.
    But I will take my reactions and my cars ability at 90 far above the average dumb ****e in a taurus at 70 on any Highway because when i drive my car, driving is my center of attention not the passenger yacking about joe millionaire or the bachelor.
    BTW i did not pick 150 to talk about and our suspensions unlike race cars have give and travel to absorb any irregularity that can't be avoided. And I for one would not beat my road car to hell on a track.
    T
     
  9. Nabbs

    Nabbs Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
    909
    Manhattan, NY
    Full Name:
    Naveed
    Slightly off-topic, but bear with me...

    An aquiantance of mine, let's call him Tom, was recently arrested for attempting to evade the Staties on 93. Without going into excrutiating details, he was doing (what he claims) was upwards of 120mph, when he passed a State Trooper. Rather then slow down, he sped up to 150+ (he claims to have hit 175mph) and essentialy outran the Trooper. As he found out later, the Trooper was unable to get a plate number (I doubt he closed to more then a 1/4 mile of this guy), but was able to get a partial plate and a good vehicle description.

    After putting outrunning the Statie, Tom pulled off the Interstate at a Clark University exit. He drove around back roads for a good bit till he happened at a Dunkin Donuts (I know the irony here is quite thick, he's not from the States, so he was unaware of the connection between cops and donuts ;) ) and parked in the back away from the street. At this point he realized he was very thirsty and quite shaken from the chase, so he headed inside to get something to drink and calm himself.

    Well nearly 30-40 minutes after the "chase" started, Tom decides to leave D&D. As he walks out he is confronted with several very angry Staties who promptly tackled him and hauled him off to jail (where he would spend 15 hours).

    Here's the kicker though: The Police, unable, to keep up with him had in fact used *HIS* LoJack to track him. Despite (obviously) not having his permission to activate it, LoJack was all to happy to activate LoJack for the Police. This was also despite the fact that the Police had neither a full plate nor could specifically confirm the exact car (it was at night). The Police passed on what partial info they had on the car to LoJack, who looked in its records to see if they in fact had a customer car that matched the Police description. When LoJack activated Tom's sensor, the Staties noticed that he was in the general vicinity of the "suspect car." As a result they tracked him, quietly from a distance, finally arresting him a good deal of time later.

    Well, Tom now has a $500K lawsuit filed against LoJack (I'm not sure under what). While I don't condone or really sympathize with Tom, I tend to feel what the police did was not above board. Furthermore, I think it should serve as a warning to LoJack equipped cars in MA. It would appear at least, that the State Police in MA can use LoJack to track you, if they feel. This is done without a warrant or owner consent (I'm not sure if this is part of the agreement with the State perhaps?), but anyway keep that in mind.

    -N
     
  10. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
    6,099
    MA USA
    Full Name:
    Mr. Doody
    no argument about the math. nobody with half a brain does 150 on the pike in newtonville --- though i know some people with a quarter of a brain who have ;) ;)

    all it takes is one moron around the next bend in the proverbial volvo on their cell phone, yelling at their kids, drifting across lanes and it's all over.

    doing it in charlton surely reduces the odds of a bad event compared to doing it weston, but that won't be any solace to the victims' families, and won't buy the driver any points with the jury during the vehicular homicide trial.

    just be careful folks, please. there are other people out there, including my children. and my wife is probably on her cell phone and yelling at the kids in the back seat :) :).

    doody.
     
  11. Nabbs

    Nabbs Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
    909
    Manhattan, NY
    Full Name:
    Naveed
    Again, way off-topic...

    Every now and then there is an "unofficial" Z06 ralley through NH's beautiful back roads. The leader is a licensed SCCA instructor, there is no passing (he sets the pace), there are usually no more then 7 or 8 cars, and radios are usually handed out.

    This Fall, when I attended, it was essentially 45-60 mins of driving 80% of how I would drive at NHIS or LRP. At one point I vividly remember the 2 Z06s in front of cresting a small rise and all 4 wheels getting off the ground (the car shuts off when the suspension fully extends!). I made the mistake of bringing my gf with me....

    This is usually quite fun...and it is as safe as such an activity can be.

    If it anybody has any interest in participating in one of these, drop me a line and I'll make sure to keep you posted.

    Pix from the event: http://nabbs.fbody.com/real_road_race/

    -N
     
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. racerx

    racerx Guest

    Nov 23, 2003
    879
    Would have been easier to say i give, Doody.

    Curves are why ferdinand gave me the best brakes in the business!

    Nabbs- anyone who tries to evade the bozos in blue driving an exotic must be from another planet. But i spose it could be done in a vette.
    T
     
  14. Nabbs

    Nabbs Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
    909
    Manhattan, NY
    Full Name:
    Naveed
    Agreed. This guy is from the Middle East, where he is used to literally paying his way out of trouble ;) No sympathy for me, as Doody said his speeds were just too insane for public roads. However, using LoJack to track you? That's like when the EZ Pass folks decided to hand out speeding tickets based on your ETA between tolls (they killed that pretty quick).

    -N
     
  15. racerx

    racerx Guest

    Nov 23, 2003
    879
    All hope is not lost for him here in the great bay state, his old habit will work here to.
    I have a handheld scanner which would have helped him immensely.
    T
     
  16. noahlh

    noahlh Formula 3

    Aug 28, 2003
    2,225
    NYC, NY
    Full Name:
    Noah
    FWIW, I've found that Rt. 2 between Alewife and Lexington provides for fantastic high-speed driving in the wee hours of the morning.

    I've driven that road hundreds of times, coming home from work late at night, and only once have I seen a Statie camped out (and he didn't have his radar on).

    Wide open, very little traffic, and no dangerous curves.
     
  17. dan360

    dan360 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2003
    2,669
    Boston
    Great to see a nice chunky issue in the New England part of the board. The whole speeding thing seems to come up fairly reguarly on the main board and is a thread I seldom bother to contribute to since it seems to be rather antagonistic. I guess I shouldn't be surprised (given the strong US representation) at the vocal "don't speed" contingent on these threads, but lets face it this is a Ferrari site!!!

    FWIW my take on this is similar to the points below.

    1. I try and keep my speed below 90-95 for a regular cruise.
    2. I always have my radar detector on. My only ticket (ever) was when I left it in the trunk after a day at Lime Rock :-(
    3. I slow WAY down in rain and other adverse conditions.
    4. If I want a blast my rules are:
    i) a quick jaunt upto XXX and back down to my cruise.
    ii) no flying past other cars at 50mph above their speed - I try to take advantage of those rare lulls between groups of traffic.
    iii) I very seldom speed at night - you just cant see the police and your totally vulnerable to instant-on and a spell of what we brits called "being held at her majesty's leisure".

    One point that consistently surpises me is the extremely poor standard of general driving around Boston. That coupled with some shocking road designs leads to some places where I would never speed - route 1 and the 2 lane sections of 128 in particular are very scary.

    On a final speed related note, I can report that the 360 does feel glued to the road at 160, and I have a friend who Vmaxed his in Germany and reported 180+ as feeling "quite fast" :)
     
  18. TCM

    TCM Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2003
    552
    Tyngsborough, MA
    I am not going to say I am an angel, but excessive speeding on public roads is not intelligent. Not so much because of person speeding, but as Doody stated, because of other unaware drivers. This is especially the case in the Boston region and especially those tunnels!! People swerve all the way across the lanes to get to the exit that they did not know was there, etc. It is not a good scenario. If you are going to drive hard, go to the track or go to an area where there are no other vehciles that could possibly be involved. Obviously, out west of Worcestor is best for this scenario.

    Nabbs:

    Thankd for the heads up on the LoJack scenario. The police will do anything to catch you if you are doing something like that. I have first hand experience with a similair situation:(. Was this person someone I know as well?
     
  19. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
    6,099
    MA USA
    Full Name:
    Mr. Doody
    a friend of mine has told me that OnStar has done similar things to that LoJack example. he said that he thought they were cycling through the courts now.

    i spoke to my wife about it (she's an attorney) and her take was that unless the agreement you signed a priori with LoJack or OnStar explicitly permitted that sort of behavior (which i'm sure it does not), the police should need a warrant in order to do this. maybe these guys got a warrant?

    i'm VERY curious about this issue since one of the cars i'm sometimes not a saint in has OnStar...

    doody.
     
  20. racerx

    racerx Guest

    Nov 23, 2003
    879
    Dan makes a lot of sense.

    TCM and DOODY have blinders on and can only see BOSTON and its burbs. I mean do you think that anyone in the "speeding" discussion is FOR doing 150 thru rush hour traffic along storrow. get real.

    Doody check the case about the car rental with gps tracking and the hefty fees assessed to the renter and the ensuing suit.

    Some people stuff their face with sausages, some with tobacco, some with drink, with drugs. then rock climbing, para gliding, certain occupations. They can all shorten life if something goes wrong. Many slip and fall. But I enjoy driving my car the way it was DESIGNED to be driven, yes it was. And i do it to a high level in places that i guess some of you have not ventured to. As it is not my place to tell 1 of the zillion fat phucks to stop gorging themselves because it increases my health ins prem. it is not their place to tell me how to drive.
    T
     
  21. Nabbs

    Nabbs Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
    909
    Manhattan, NY
    Full Name:
    Naveed
    TCM: Yep :)

    I'll try and keep you guys posted on whats happening with this case. Remember, the LoJack was not used to track his speed...rather it was used to track HIM.

    Doody, from what I gather they did not have a warrant, as they only had a partial plate. I'm even wondering if they activated quite a few lojacks of cars that matched the description, then looked to see if any were in the vicinity of where they lost sight of him.

    Bottom line in regards to this guy, while the police were wrong, he certainly put himself in the situation to begin with. We all speed and drive maybe faster then we should, but I think we can all agree there is certainly a large rift between "driving above the posted speed limit" and "driving completely recklessly." I think 175mph on 93 qualifies as reckless.

    Speaking of reckless: I'll keep people who have PM'ed posted about our little Corvette jaunts in NH and VT coming up.

    -N
     
  22. wax

    wax Four Time F1 World Champ
    Advising Moderator

    Jul 20, 2003
    45,881
    SFPD
    Full Name:
    Dirty Harry
    I'm not choosing sides, rather pointing out a flaw/weakness in the foundation of your debate point:

    Stuffing one's own face doesn't endanger other individuals, though they are in the vicinity. However, driving at higher speeds in trafficked areas does.
     
  23. racerx

    racerx Guest

    Nov 23, 2003
    879
    HEEELLLLOOOO earth to wax, earth calling wax.

    Read the damn posts if you want to make a comment that doesn't make you look thick.

    Here is the debate;

    One side - i drive my exotic car (not some avg POS), built to drive fast on public roads, in conditions where there is no density of humanity in a way to minimize problems ie drive section of road at normal speed first to know what i will see, have team member go ahead and radio back any needed info etc.

    The other side- i being the sole arbitor of acceptable human behaviour determine that you may not engage in any enjoyment of your exotic because;

    a) it irritates me that you may enjoy life and what it is to offer more than me,

    b) i'm so concerned with all humans that i prefer to drive my ultra expensive exotic slowly past the homeless and hungry in my urban environs dreaming of which overpriced aftermarket exhuast i will purchase next.

    c) i'm just an arrogant ***** that will exert my will over you just because (check here if corrupt pol / judge/ cop)


    I mean that is really the bottom line on this.
    T
     
  24. dan360

    dan360 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2003
    2,669
    Boston
    Dude - this is the antagonism I was referring to earlier in these threads. Its a free country and you're of course free to get irate about this. But it does somewhat take the fun out of an issue where there are wide "differences in opinion".
     
  25. racerx

    racerx Guest

    Nov 23, 2003
    879
    I agree completely about the antagonism part, but i will not sit by while others dominate an issue especially if they use emotion rather than logic and facts. I stayed out of the speeding thread that was in the general area about a month ago for this reason. But at some point i say i will not let it pass because thats how debates/issues are lost.
    I also will not let the fact that i disagree with someone about an issue affect how i treat them on another topic or in person.
    But this is just another area where people want to restrict what others can or can't do. Gun ownership, drug use, etc.... When people come on this board, as you yourself point out a ferrari board, and chastise others for driving their cars and labeling them as criminal, bad, irresponsible, reckless, etc. I say BULL. I never would have started a thread saying if you don't drive at a certain pace or go on certain activities you are a poser. Imagine the response that would get.
    T
     
  26. ChrisfromRI

    ChrisfromRI Karting

    Jan 28, 2003
    230
    Foster, RI
    Full Name:
    Chris F
    What's a 928?
     
  27. racerx

    racerx Guest

    Nov 23, 2003
    879
    Are you serious?
    T
     
  28. racerx

    racerx Guest

    Nov 23, 2003
    879
    For a large part of the 80's the fastest production car you could buy, but not only fast, luxurious, reliable and rare. Hope this helps. Almost always picked by car mag editors and reviewers above the TR or countach.
    T
     

Share This Page