Twitchy Throttle

Nuno. This I will have to completely disagree on. A 458 is not a race car anywhere. It's a sportscar for the road. Not even the Speciale is a race car.
Add to that the fact that no properly set up race car would ever have such a twitchy throttle on purpose. A race car needs a smooth throttle and a smooth gear change, no jerkyness to upset the balance and handling.

On the 488 they did not implement the same kind of twitchy throttle, far from it in fact. And in the Speciale, they got rid of it as well. Even the TdF has a less twitchy throttle than the F12 which in turn is a bit like the 458 but not as much as the 458, despite the TdF being more raw and brutal. It is not a flaw in the sense that it was not meant to be like that, but it is a flaw in the sense that it turned out to not be a very good thing.

Had it been a good thing, I think it is safe to say that they would not have removed it on the 458 Speciale.

 

A.B.,

I of course respect your differing opinion, namely when it’s presented in such a well written and knowledgeable manner.

I understand what you mean, but I’d like to amplify my answer, to try and better explain what I meant:

I’m not one of the owners who feel the throttle is twitchy, uncomfortable or whatever. I feel when most people complain and say the throttle is overly sensitive, they’re comparing it to an everyday car. Every Ferrari is supposed to have performance oriented genes in it, and so certain mundane amenities may be sacrificed. A Ferrari behaves differently due to its philosophy, so the point made about the throttle and the implicitly comparison with other cars behind it, in my very humble opinion, may be a fallacy. Everybody talks about the alleged Ferrari throttle twitchyness, but few mention McLaren’s gearbox software for instance.

Kind regards,

Nuno.

 

I fully agree. I think they did that to make the car feel "snappy", but unfortunately when it comes to driving fast....fast is smooth, and smooth is fast!
I reluctantly have to say that Porsche has Ferrari beat in this category. Their throttles have a long linear travel, so it is easy to drive smooth and fast. I happened to get used to the "twitchy" throttle, but it doesn't mean I have to like it.

 

Porsche has them well and truly beat in a few areas sadly to say, the throttle and brake modulation being two key examples. As you say, smooth = fast. To be smooth there needs to be a sharp, progressive and easy to modulate feel to both throttle and brake.

Porsche provides such an incredibly satisfying precise modulation of throttle and braking the others could only dream of having. They have really perfected this to such a high level they are streets ahead of the competition.

This Ferrari twitchy throttle nonsense has nothing at all to do with a sports car feel and is a major spanner in the works for any driver to extract the cars full potential. The very fact Pista has this problem nearly beat now (and I bet in F8 too) is evidence Ferrari has finally recognized a need to sort their act out by fixing this unnecessary aggravation so the car can at least compete with today's much tougher competition, who have been working hard in these areas.

Just because a driver is able to manage living with the flaw doesn't excuse the situation at all. It's just bad engineering....no other word for it. I could not imagine for one split second that this problem would be present in their F1 cars. No way.

 

Very well said!!

 

I own a gated 360 Spider and I love it on the road but I've been considering a 458 for a bit more performance and some fun at the track and so I decided to rent one for a few days. I just returned from two glorious days in Southern Cal, exploring some great twisty roads and just getting a feel for the car. Great handling, solid brakes, awesome power and beautiful exhaust note. However, the twitchy throttle bothered me enough to give me pause, so I came straight here to get the scoop and see if it bothered anyone else. In my opinion the problem is worse getting off the throttle than on but I found it difficult to modulate both ways. Also, you would expect a twitchy lift in low gears but it's not much better in 7th gear - it's like an on/off switch. Here's my question: is the twitchy throttle issue any better on the 488's? I've read this whole thread and there seem to be a few different opinions on that question.

 

To answer your question regarding the 488 throttle. Yes. While the 488 is a bit on the touchy side still, it's lightyears better than the 458 in this regard. Apples and oranges.

 

I own a GT3RS, Speedster, 812 & 458.
I track monthly(3RS), and drive these cars daily.

The 458 was my first and have put 9k miles over the years (incl track days). The others joined the stable in the past 12 months and I rotate them on a weekly basis.

I drive 30 miles / day / 5 days a week. 50:50 Highway & street.

I never noticed how twitchy the 458 throttle was, until I start rotating the cars weekly. Exact same driving scenarios between all 4 cars, and the others aren’t ‘everyday’ car either so I believe the comparisons are fair.

I find myself gravitating towards the Porsches for driving pleasure, 812 for sheer power, and 458 purely for nostalgia.

812 throttle is also front loaded i.e. you never need to really mash it all the way to get the desired performance. I’ve hit 175mph with 50% throttle input throughout. BUT absolutely zero twitch. You do need a light foot, but the car will never throw you off mid-corner like the 458 might if you’re at the wrong spot on its throttle curve.

Compared to that, the Porsche cars have a beautiful throttle curve, and you actually get to mash the pedal to redline. There’s something about going 8/10ths and enjoying the car yet still being civil.

Even after all these years of ownership, it takes me till Tuesday of the 458 week to get in tune with it, compared to the others, where I’m instantly ‘at home’ on Monday morning.

My solution for 458:
1) Stay a gear higher than you would when not in Full Send mode. Allows greater pedal modulation. Also I have exhaust flaps open via a controller so it sounds throaty at low revs too

2) Account for a delay with shifts (yes, gearbox age shows with compared to the others)

As others have said above, smooth = fast, and it’s more pronounced with the 458.

 

You're spot on. Cannot stand that throttle feel.

I know why they did it, but it definitely does not make the car fast or nice to drive. A shame they compromised the driving experience that way, just to add some artificial excitement.

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On one of my other cars I had a full MoTec ECU system. While tuning the tuner asked it i wanted a twitchy throttle ( apparently there are those that like it to give a sense of responsiveness ).

I just said yes lets try it. 10 minutes in the drive i said GET RID OF IT.

I did notice this on the 458 when I went for a test drive. Glad it wasn't on the 488 GTB that I finally bought

 

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SSP7, I'm glad you started by mentioning the other high performance cars you drive regularly. I see a lot of people have responded along the lines of "yeah, high torque (or high compression, or high performance, blah, blah, blah) cars feel like that. They don't - they aren't supposed to and having a linear throttle feel is pretty important to high performance driving. If you can't modulate the throttle smoothly, it's hard to drive smoothly, which means it's difficult to stay close to the limit of the car's grip. I track my 3RS regulatory and the throttle on the Porsche is very smooth and instills confidence.

The 458 throttle is decidedly non-linear. Here's what I've noticed: The throttle is actually not so bad on acceleration, it's horrible on lift. When you start to get out of the throttle it's on-off, the car starts to decelerate as though you are left foot braking. You have astutely figured out that short shifting (staying in a higher gear) helps the problem a little. Adjusting the mode does not help. I've tried 4 different tunes with Open Flash and it doesn't help either. Side note: I still highly recommend Open Flash to keep the fuel cutoff open to get the beautiful burbles and pops on lift.

When I first got the 458 I was concerned that it would be a big issue on track but actually it's not. It's much more noticeable driving on the highway than it is under extreme driving.

Paul

 

Paul, you expressed it accurately. It's the slight lift that causes on/off sensation which is unsettling. (I expect a retort from someone how they "never lift and are balls to the wall" when they drive their Ferrari) but real world driving is about modulation.
You're right about the track bit, unless you're in long corners where you need to modulate a bit. 3RS is a different league on track though.

Is that TDF blue? Here's mine.
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I agree. It’s actually the only thing I dislike about the car and especially annoying in track driving when you’re trying to be smooth. This will allow you to dial it out, though.

https://www.openflashtablet.com/shop/openflash-tablet-for-ferrari-458-italia/


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Did you talk with Shiv about the throttle sensitivity? Maybe something he needs to do.


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You guys are going to hit me upside the head for saying this ...

I'll never understand the desire to take the character out a specific car to make it feel as bland as all the others out there.

In addition to its other quirks, a great part of what makes me love this car is that it asks me to be super precise with my inputs, something that brings me back to cars that engaged the driver and demanded a degree of skill from him/her. Yes, in manual mode in 3rd gear at 3000rpm a half a hair's width of throttle input either has you glued to your seat or engine braking, if you feel the need to take that away from it then perhaps you chose the wrong car ... and if that bothers someone, put it in bumpy mode and auto mode and the car will be in 12th gear a 30mph and Camrify itself for your seditative enjoyment.

There are so many sports cars out there that will let the computers do all the work, must we force that on this one as well?
And isn't that part of the whole point of being blessed enough to own or rotate through several cars so as to get a variety of driving experiences?

I am ready for your rage.

 

Absolutely zero rage. these are 1%er problems, there are more important things in life to rage over

Its like comparing heavy metal to EDM. Different flavors for different people, yet both aren’t the opera.

I’d hardly call a GT3RS bland, or Camry’d. And I get your point about the characteristics of a Ferrari. Heck, I put up with peeling dashboards and sticky buttons and mark it down as cost of living with an Italian. But I’d prefer a smoother power delivery.

Again, diff strokes for diff folks and I wish it was programmable.

Cheers.

 

I wasn't referring to the GT3RS specifically, I owned a 991.1 and 991.2 and I found them to be great cars. They have a singular focus that the 458 in base form was never meant to have. Personally I didn't enjoy them as much as others because you can't really live at 6000+ rpm on the street so the best of them wasn't available anywhere but the track. But I only track race cars for safety reasons so the car offered very little to me.

But again that's neither here or there, I wasn't trying to make a direct comparison.. My point was that we all have a multitude of friends and have dated a multitude of partners so as to get different experiences from different people ... we don't meet someone interesting and different and try to scrub that aspect of their personality out of them. I feel the same about cars. But of course it isn't for me to say what anyone should do with their possessions or money, or how they choose to modify/personalize their cars. I just find it odd that peeps feel the need to homogenize something special.

Probably a me issue.

 

Removing the twitchy throttle does not take away its character. For all intended purposes it enhances it. It does not make the car exciting or fast, it just make that little part seem half-assed.
They did not do this to the Speciale, and I think it's safe to say that had it been a great thing, they would have kept it.

I'm perfectly fine with a bit of E numbers, that's the silliness that makes Ferrari Ferrari. But with some cars they went too far and themselves realized that they had to dial it back a notch. I suspect that they feared that the DCT would be too clinical, and thus they tried to enhance the sense of occassion. Unfortunately they did this the wrong way in several places.
Replace twitchy throttles, jerky shifts and darty steering with neutral handling, less understeer and good brakes, and that car is anything but boring and average. Sure you might have a few less talented drivers and wanna-be racers climbing the odd tree etc. but the car will be a proper sportscar that rewards you when you get it right - and tries to kill you when you run out of perceived talent.

This used to be okay and it used to be what sportscars were all about. We talk such a big game of sense of occassion, but where's the sense of danger to go with it? You get gear shifts and a throttle that are modelled on the perceived idea of what a race car feels like, but the axtual car is tame because there is no demand anymore. Every pop star and Beverly Hills hausfrau should feel comfortable driving it, so what really makes a car good and properly handle is gone. I know, I rant a bit here but I'm not entirely wrong.

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I pretty much agree 100%. My 458 Spider has a sensitive throttle . . . and I love it. It took me a few weeks to get used to it, but once I got it dialed in it has not been an issue for me. I take friends out in my car (I drive on the way out) and I hit 8,000 rpms in the low gears and everything is totally smooth. I let my friend drive on the way back and they drive like someone who is learning to drive a manual transmission for the first time, with the car shaking on every shift. Too much fun. It makes them want to come back and improve their skills.

 

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This is an interesting thread. It seems some are defending the throttle feel in the 458. If you like it or not is certainly a matter of opinion, but there is no denying the difference between the 458 and 488. Having driven both cars in a city atmosphere as well as open road, there is no doubt that the 488 has a much smoother throttle response.

 

I thought I had a problem with my 2015 458 Spider as the "twitchy throttle" has been driving me nuts. I even had the car taken back to the dealer where I purchased the car and was told everything was normal. The car idles smoothly, accelerates aggressively but when I am "cruising" at very light throttle the RPM's hunt up and down. I should have checked FChat earlier. My drive today was much better using Bumpy Road and applying a bit stronger throttle pressure. I am finding that Race is smoother then Sport and also agree that between 4-5k rpm's is always smooth. I recently drove an F8 Spider and did not notice the "twitchy throttle" that my car exhibits. I will learn to adjust to the car.

 

My 2015 Spider sure has the Twitchy Throttle characteristics.

 

I traded a 2003 360 Spider for my current 2015 458 Spider in January of 2020. I can tell you my 360 nor other 360's and a couple of F430's that I have driven had throttle response like my current 458. The twitchy throttle seems to be a "feature" of the 458. I am better learning how to drive the car and my drive to day was much improved by applying some of the steps listed in the various comments. I am just glad that my car is not experiencing something unique.

 

I'm in the same boat right now. Bought my first Ferrari - a 2014 458 Spider and as beautiful as the car is I'm doing my best to learn how to enjoy it. At the moment leaning towards selling it. Came on here to see what others are saying...