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Type of Antifreeze touse?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by JohnMH, Jan 30, 2004.

  1. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,031
    Dubai, UAE
    I am new to the Ferrari thing, and am thinking about swaping the old coolant for new. I have searched for threads on this topic and haven't found any. Does anyone have any suggestions regarding what type / brand of coolant to use? I use the Mercedes pale yellow stuff and distilled water in my daily driver, but have no clue what to put into my 308QV. I have used Evans fluid in my ducati (magnesium water pump case) but store it dry when it is not being used, so I have no idea what the long term effect of Evans might be.
     
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  3. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
    10,675
    Worldwide
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    Steven
    John,

    It has been covered in the OLD archives. The Mercedes clear and distilled water is best just as you are probably using in your other car now.

    Enjoy the Drive,

    Steven R. Rochlin
     
  4. 4re gt4

    4re gt4 Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2002
    2,279
    Roseburg, OR
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    Hans E. Hansen
    I know nothing about the Mercedes coolant, but have heard nothing but good about it.

    The big problem, as with many newer cars, is corrosion/electrolysis in the aluminum. I use the green antifreeze, with the addition of Redline Water Wetter. It has added anti-corrosion 'stuff' in it. Also, makes the car run cooler, as these cooling systems are just on the edge, and every little bit helps. Also, I'd change it frequently (I do annual), as the anti-corrosion properties degrade with time.

    I just had a bad experience with Dexcool (the red coolant) in a Chev Blazer. It turned to thick brown mud. They had to do a "Super Flush" to clean out the motor and cooling system, replace water pump, thermostat, and rad cap. The thermostat and cap had to be replaced twice, as the harsh chemicals in the Super Flush destroy them. The cause of this was given as "air in the system". Apparently, that ruins the red stuff. Ferrari-size repair bill on a Chevy.

    I switched to green. So what if you have to change it more often.
     
  5. Doc

    Doc Formula Junior

    Sep 13, 2001
    886
    Latham, New York
    Full Name:
    Bill Van Dyne
    I've used the old Prestone green stuff , 50/50 mix, most of the time in my '85 308 with no problem. Last summer, i tried Red Line Water Wetter with about 80% distilled water and 20% Prestone. It did run somewhat cooler with that mix, but, in this cold winter weather one must use the old standard 50/50 mix. I've changed mine once per year as well.
     
  6. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

    Jul 9, 2003
    547
    Tejas/Europe/Desert
    Full Name:
    shanb
    I use only Mercedes orange coolant in all my cars as I believe it is less corrosive to aluminum than the green stuff.

    By the way - Mercedes does not make their coolant, it is just repackaged & resold in MB labeled containers. It is actually manufactured by Zerex and is available commercially as "Zerex G-05" in the gold bottle. Check it out:

    http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=10
     
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  8. GTO84

    GTO84 Formula Junior

    Dec 13, 2003
    562
    whatever you use just be sure to not mix the different types. Dex cool and green ethylene glycol will react to each other chemically, and cause damage. Dex cool does cause the brown mud substance, and is just a cheap factory money saver. Some are glycol based and some are citric acid based. Mercedes coolant is the right choice, if a correct non chemical flush is done.
     
  9. Steve King

    Steve King F1 Rookie

    Feb 15, 2001
    4,359
    NY
    I've always used Prestone for the last 40 years with good results but after I got the 308 and needed to do my WP I relooked at this choise. I had a discussion with the WP rebuilder and his recommendation was to use a "phosphate free" antifreeze and distilled water. He did not have a specific brand but just pressed the point of phosphate free. Even if you change your fluids every year this was the recommendation. So I thought I would give it a try and I'm using Sierra made by Peak. That and distilled water seems to work fine. My engine has never run hot (165deg) normal through the year with peak of 195 during 90+ weather with AC running and in city traffic.So I'll see how this works because I expect at least 40k and another 15 years on the WP or al least thats what this guy told me and if I'm alive and he is still in business he will repair it for free. HA
     
  10. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,031
    Dubai, UAE
    Thanks for the suggestions, the key seems to be changing it often. I have had no problems with my MB, they seem to suggest their coolant as it does not harm the plastic which makes up the top of their radiators. (I am not aware of any plastic in the 308's sytem, aside from perhaps the water pump impeller?) Now if only it was as easy to change coolant on the 308 as the MB. As for flushing, I think draining from the lower rad hose (with the heater turned on and all bleed valves momentarily cracked) and refilling with distilled water, running the car for a few minutes, repeat until all green is gone may be the only (time consuming) option.

    I thought about running the Evans fluid, but if you ever find yourself a pint or so low in the middle of nowhere, it could be a problem.
     
  11. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
    Cumming, Georgia
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    Franklin E. Parker
    I use BMW coolant which happens to be blue in color. Since BMW engines are all aluminum, I'm sure it provides adequent protection from corrosion. I use a 75% distilled water and 25% coolant mix since cooling is a bigger issue here in Georgia than freeze protection and water cools better than coolant. .
     
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  13. 4re gt4

    4re gt4 Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2002
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    Roseburg, OR
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    Hans E. Hansen
    GTO84: Afraid you've got it all wrong. You CAN mix red (Dexcool) and green (as per official GM service bulletins), but it spoils the *supposed* long change intervals. You'll have to do annual changes. And both red and green are ethylene glycol based (if you don't believe that, just look at the ingredients on the jug.) What is different is the anticorrosion 'package'. Red uses 'organic' ingredients to be more eco-friendly, and it is *supposed* to last longer before the anti-corrosion properties fade out. But personal experience belies that.
     
  14. paulie_b

    paulie_b F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    Jan 13, 2003
    6,792
    Jupiter, FL
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    Paul Bianco
    Prestone and water 50/50 mixture plus 1 pint of "Water Wetter". Also make sure you don't have any air pockets in the system when you finish. Also make sure your radiator fans are working properly.
     
  15. 4re gt4

    4re gt4 Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2002
    2,279
    Roseburg, OR
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    Hans E. Hansen
    Amen on the Water Wetter. For those unfamiliar with it, do a study of Redline's website.
     
  16. AEHaas

    AEHaas Formula 3

    May 9, 2003
    1,350
    Osprey, Florida
    Full Name:
    Ali E. Haas
    The most important thing to know about antifreeze is that you MUST follow the manufacturers instructions to the letter. They specifically say to use a certain amount and state that you should use no more or no less. Some of the additives that are included to prevent corrosive events are themselves corrosive at lower or higher concentrations.

    I did a big study on this (see old threads) and can tell you that you will hurt your system if you do not follow the instructions.

    They are all different. Some brands say to use a 50-50 mix in all applications, others say to use 60 or 70 percent. They all say that more or less than specified will result is damage!

    Lastly, do not mix anything. One additive may counteract another. Cooling systems should last the life of the car. Why do so many people think they know better than the manufacturers (car and antifreeze)?

    aehaas
     
  17. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 24, 2002
    5,085
    Ventura, California
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    Robert Garven
    I have been using the dexcool for 6 years now and have had no problems what so ever, I have heard lots of bad stuff about it but what I have really heard is if you are using the dexcool don't switch back to the green as it makes the dexcool flake off the surfaces of the system and clog the radiator. I just changed my upper front radiator hose and have to say that the dexcool leaves a very light white powdery coating on the inside of the pipe. It drains out clear as a bell everytime, but I change it every year and use 50/50 with distilled water. I originally switched as the green stuff has the phosphates and silicates which is really just another name for sand. One Ferrari mechanic said that he saw a water pump housing eaten through due to the porus casting and abrasive coolant. I lose sleep at least once a year about (which coolant) this but can report no damage or overheating or leaks of any kind.....????? I really would like to switch to something perfect if it ever come along, was going to evans but had some reservations as it is flamable and is supposed to make the engine run hotter, but i have a friend with a 57 chevy that swears by it......
     
  18. racerboy9

    racerboy9 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 3, 2003
    2,029
    I have been using Evans coolant in my '84 Silverado for four months now with absolutely no problems though I haven't hit warm weather yet. Truck doesn't run any different. There is a flamability issue but then you have hot oil under pressure and gas lines under pressure in the engine compartment too. You can use a low pressure or zero pressure radiator cap so less stress on hoses and radiator. No water involved so corrosion isn't a worry. I am still in the trial phase and so far all is well.
     
  19. Zanny1

    Zanny1 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 19, 2003
    615
    Fountain Hills, Arizona
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    Mike
    How about early to mid V-12's? And how does one properly drain them? I've heard 50/50 prestone is a good mix and to reverse flush through the heater hose lines. Thoughts from you vintage V-12 folks?
     
  20. 4re gt4

    4re gt4 Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2002
    2,279
    Roseburg, OR
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    Hans E. Hansen
    Ethylene glycol is flammable too.......... (but not as bad, as it's mixed with water.)
     
  21. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    7,174
    Note: DeIonized water is corrosive to metals (how do you think they get the ions out of the water?)

    Note: Distilled water is perfect for radiators and engines.
     
  22. AEHaas

    AEHaas Formula 3

    May 9, 2003
    1,350
    Osprey, Florida
    Full Name:
    Ali E. Haas
    I had a discussion with a woman in the tech department today at Valvoline/Xerex. We talked shop for about a half hour.

    Specifically I wanted to know why their best consumer antifreeze (AF), the G 05, has silicon at 250 PPM. Some of the supposedly "silicon free" AF I have seen have from 10 to 25 PPM anyway. She told me that it is a water pump lubricant. Over the years they have tested it long term and found this to be the best amount, not more (as in the past), not less as in some other current formulations.

    I also noted that Mercedes Benz now has a dyed AF. It was clear before. She told me that was just a manufacturers request for a color change. The MB stuff is in fact the G 05 antifreeze, clear or colored.

    She fully recommended it as the best AF for my Maranello, Murcielago, 2 MB's and my Expedition!

    And as Mitch said, use distilled water to mix, not de-ionized.

    aehaas
     

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