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Using a PF coupe as a donor car

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by 246tasman, Feb 28, 2010.

  1. 246tasman

    246tasman Formula 3

    Jun 21, 2007
    1,430
    UK
    Full Name:
    Will Tomkins
    At the risk of stirring a hornet's nest, the current discussion on original bodies leads me to share my plans for the 1957 315S body from 0656.

    I have mentioned before that I plan to make an FIA legal (ie an accurate copy apart from the body differences) 250TR using the 0656 body, and will make a new customer style chassis and use running gear from a PF Coupe. I own PF Coupe 1421GT which is in reasonable shape with freshly rebuilt mechanicals, soon to be back on the road. It will probably be 2 or 3 years before I'm ready to use the mechanicals, but if I haven't managed to find all the parts I need to complete the 250TR I will use the parts from 1421GT to get the TR built & racing.

    For those who have not succumbed to apoplexies/heart attacks etc, here is the cunning part:
    The cars will not be separated as long as I own them. I will keep looking out for parts, and as new parts are found the original bits will go back to 1421GT. Because the chassis remains with the PF body the car will not suffer and will eventually be back on the road in it's original form.

    Maybe other replica builders might follow this route and keep the donor car together with the replica, leaving open the possibility of putting the donor back together one day - the economics might make sense in a few years.

    Having said all this you can't beat Tom Shaughnessy's dictum: "First collect the pieces, then buy the jigsaw puzzle"
     
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  3. GIOTTO

    GIOTTO F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Dec 30, 2006
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    #2 GIOTTO, Feb 28, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 28, 2010
    Good idea, but too late with all the massacred 250GT's arround now.
    Your idea about #1451GT and #0656 is not so bad. But try to find the needed parts first. And please, never separate the original chassis from the body of your 250GT.
     
  4. 246tasman

    246tasman Formula 3

    Jun 21, 2007
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    Will Tomkins
    #3 246tasman, Feb 28, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 28, 2010
    Don't worry, they're staying together..
     
  5. buurman

    buurman Formula Junior

    Sep 21, 2004
    261
    Full Name:
    cornelis leendert
    Will,
    you have my blessings,
    There is nowadays a much more dangerous tendancy in the vintage F-word.
    I've seen in italy a new problem.
    Owners of an original 250Gt CLONE this car to create an TR or Carl Spider.
    USING the same Vin # number!
    Without using anything of the org. car!
    Well as long the car stays at the same owner no problem.
    But once it will be sold.


    You only life once so do what you like.

    But most nice rebodied car who come on the market nowadays are honestly called replicas.

    C.
     
  6. maserich

    maserich Karting

    Mar 13, 2008
    162
    The TR chassis through pontoon fendered did not use oval tubes, but had round tube frames.
    No reason to use your typical Ferrari chassis.
     
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  8. 246tasman

    246tasman Formula 3

    Jun 21, 2007
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    Will Tomkins
    Of course, but the reason many chassis from PFs & GTEs plus the odd 330 have been used is because it's cheaper to use what you have and not easily visible.
     
  9. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2004
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    It's a free country and so long as you're not breaking a law, you can do whatever you want. Given these, you are only answerable to yourself and no one else. But I do hope that you are able to pull it off. If you do, you will be the first, because so far there has not been a soul born yet whose mongrel has looked or handle like the real thing.

    An old country saying I still have with me from my mother goes something like this: you stretch your legs only as far as the length of your blanket. So in my free country, I would proudly come out in the best PF coupe I could afford, and leave the TR to the billionaires or those who were lucky enough to secure one before the billionaires showed up.

    Wishing you good luck with your project.

    john
     
  10. 246tasman

    246tasman Formula 3

    Jun 21, 2007
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    #8 246tasman, Mar 1, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2010
    John

    The reason for the PF Coupe components is to make it exactly like the real thing from a mechanical standpoint. The TR components are identical regarding suspension, brakes, axle gearbox and short engine. I have a set of new Crossthwaite & Gardner TR cylinder heads to go on the block, and manifolds & carbs are easily available.
    In short it is a mongrel by ancestry, but will perform as original (or maybe a bit better with modern spec engine internals) and tyres.

    There are many 'mongrel' Ferraris out there looking and handling just like the real thing, some of which have more original Ferrari parts than many so called genuine cars.

    Of course most '250 TR Replicas' are built out of GTE or 330 components with the wrong chassis, engine, suspension , brakes, gearbox and body shape, but probably still give their owners a load of fun. Neil Twyman here in UK has made a couple of really good exact copies.

    Best wishes
    Will
     
  11. ggjjr

    ggjjr Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2003
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    George
    I, for one, would much rather see a whole, 250 pf coupe than a replica either shown or driving by.

    George
     
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  13. andymont

    andymont Formula Junior

    May 16, 2007
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    Andrea M.
    #10 andymont, Mar 1, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2010
    I consider wasted money, every cent spent in a replica , "mongrel" or something like that.

    The fun of driving a vintage Ferrari is a mix of exciting performances and awareness of the history you have under your ass.

    If such a car is without an history, it can only provide a fake half fun.

    Ciao

    Andrea
     
  14. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

    Apr 28, 2004
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    Dr.Stuart Schaller
    Personally, I would rather see a number of PFs combined into a single PF, and the same thing with 250GTEs, rather than another "replicar" of a GTO or Testa Rosa or something of that order created...
     
  15. sumlin

    sumlin Karting

    Jan 12, 2009
    219
    I'm pleased something makes sense in all of this.
     
  16. barchetta

    barchetta Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    Nov 5, 2003
    682
    Me too! Please do not break it up!
     
  17. KenGoldman

    KenGoldman Formula Junior
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    May 25, 2009
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    Kenneth Goldman
    I agree with the above.

    My vote would Not to break up the PF Coupe.

    These cars are getting scarcer each day----maybe you can
    keep the PF together & buy another replicar out there??

    Ken
     
  18. sumlin

    sumlin Karting

    Jan 12, 2009
    219
    Exactly. You trust Ferrari and Pininfarina to make good cars, that's why people want them instead of building their own in the shed. The PF was designed by one of the greatest design houses of all time. It is also an incredibly understated and beautiful car and it left the factory that way. Market value might not dictate that it's the most important Ferrari ever made but I'm not sure people who plan things on market value are the sort of people Pininfarina and Ferrari had in mind when they designed these cars in the first place. It's not too late to be proud of what you've got...
     
  19. 246tasman

    246tasman Formula 3

    Jun 21, 2007
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    Will Tomkins
    The last seven posts have all missed the point. This is about NOT breaking up a PF coupe. First I'm hoping to find the parts I need by the time I need them, and then if something is missing (eg the short engine) BORROWING it from the PF till I find a surplus 128F short engine.

    The body chassis interior wiring lights glass all stay together.

    The idea was to post about the novel concept of keeping everything together until the bits turn up to have 2 cars:
    1. Original PF Coupe
    2. Original super rare Scaglietti body put back onto a appropriate chassis and using period parts from scrapped cars.

    I'm personally not fantastically interested to know which individuals do or do not like built-up rather than original cars, but if you need to keep on pronouncing I suppose that's your business....
     
  20. peter5

    peter5 Formula Junior

    Aug 13, 2005
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    #17 peter5, Mar 3, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2010
    I think there is one aspect that hasn't been discussed here yet, and that is the use of original parts that could otherwise be used to keep other cars running. While your car may be complete, many aren't. By using those parts on your project, you decrease the availability, run up the costs and ultimately prevent a complete restoration of other cars from becoming economically feasible.
    I know you are one actor, but there is a limited supply of these parts. Remember, it's not just the chassis/body of these cars that are important.

    Peter
    Also, if you go through with this, I vote for Scaglietti badges ONLY to represent what the body is. Ferrari badges would indicate something that the car is not, and never will be.
     
  21. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 11, 2003
    6,077
    Central NJ
    Will,

    Good luck in building up a replacement chassis under your original racer body! I hope you find the parts you need before you need them. I suspect that Tom S. has everything you need or at least can find it quickly hopefully that will minimize the need for playing musical parts).

    By the way, what condition is the body in?

    Regards,

    Art S.

    PS. I'll contact you directly later today on another matter.
     
  22. 246tasman

    246tasman Formula 3

    Jun 21, 2007
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    Will Tomkins
    Hi Art

    The 315S body is in really good shape. Photos posted here:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=245713&highlight=0656

    Best wishes
    Will
     
  23. Mrpbody44

    Mrpbody44 F1 Veteran

    Jul 5, 2007
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    Steve Metz
    Sounds like a great project to get that body on the road
     
  24. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 11, 2003
    6,077
    Central NJ
    Will, I think I just had a stroke of genius, or just a stroke.

    Once you complete the chassis, fit a Datsun 240Z body to it for a few weeks while you are sorting it (there must be plenty around considering how many Datsun based GTOs were made). It will be the ultimate reverse replica! :D :D :D ;)

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  25. sumlin

    sumlin Karting

    Jan 12, 2009
    219
    You started the thread! What did you think was going to happen?
     
  26. Julio Batista

    Julio Batista Formula 3

    Dec 22, 2005
    2,397
    It's called trolling.
     
  27. ggjjr

    ggjjr Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2003
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    George
    I agree.
     
  28. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
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    Jon
    I tend to agree with this. I would be much more impressed with a real, complete PF coupe than the "TR" project described.

    Personally, I wouldn't "borrow" parts from any vintage collectible car.

    My .02.
     

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