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Valve Stem Covers - what is appropriate?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by enio45, Dec 15, 2019.

  1. enio45

    enio45 Formula 3
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    May 16, 2004
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    Ed
    Working out a few details on the 58 Ellena.....

    I have the Borrani wheels and my valve stems look like this.

    I have see wheels that have valve stem covers installed - not particularly my car because there are mim to none original that could be a reference.

    What would be appropriate for me to do on my car.....covers or no covers????

    Here is what i have......
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  3. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    romano schwabel
    you have here 2 small covers: 1 is metall/brass and the other is plastic/rubber. the plastik is on the metall and the metal has a "pin" to remove the valve.
    I´m not sure if this metall valve with the thread has been orignal? I have seen the valve on the tube in a normal diameter and when it comes thrugh the aluminum rim there is a separate larger plastic that the valve will not get damaged.
     
  4. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Brian Crall
    That topic is on the agenda for the next IAC/PFA board meeting. Ask Parker Hall.
     
  5. GSJFerrari

    GSJFerrari Karting

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    Greg Jones
  6. enio45

    enio45 Formula 3
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    greg, thanks for the photo's

    then is it correct to have the covers on the inner tube stems? seems to imply so?
     
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  8. GSJFerrari

    GSJFerrari Karting

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    yes
     
  9. elmansc

    elmansc Rookie

    Jan 26, 2016
    6
    CONCOURS JUDGING

    Showing one’s car is as old as the automobile industry. There are numerous Concours de Elegance, Pebble Beach, Palm Beach Cavallino and Amelia Island are prime examples. There are numerous automobile museums, Petterson, Blackhawk, and individual owner collections. There are numerous automobile restoration specialists, such as Motion Production Inc (the leading restorer of vintage Ferrari sports cars). Individual car owners have been getting together at local coffee houses and local auto shows ever since the hot rod era. Judges have been viewing cars awarding best in category and best in show ever since shows commenced.

    It is only logical the Ferrari Club of America has its annual concours. Owners of Ferrari’s new and old prepare their cars for the concours. The newer Ferrari owners with production precision cars can shine up their Ferrari’s and show them with ease. However, Ferrari owners of vintage cars have a more difficult task. Vintage Ferrari’s were almost all handmade without the use of modern robots, etc.

    In particular the Ferrari 365 GTB/4 “Daytona” made from 1968 through 1974 was constantly evolving during its production. The earlier Daytona’s were different than later Daytona’s and European Daytona’s were different than Daytona’s with United States specifications.

    Which gets to the heart of this article. CONCOURS JUDGING, PREMIO DI PLATINO AND COPPA BELLA MACHINA

    Judging at Ferrari Club of America sanctioned events uses guide lines created by IAC/PFA which, IIRC, are "adopted" or similar to the ones used at Pebble Beach Concours.
    These guide lines (rules ?) are mainly focusing on authenticity & originality, meaning the car will get point deductions on anything and/or everything that wasn't originally built/installed at the factory. Some small exceptions exist, for example most Daytonas didn't have a Radio when shipped from the factory and since several "options" were available, they were sold and installed by the dealer. Any and all odd or unusual features that might be considered original has to have documentation for proof.

    If you were at an official Ferrari Club event, then, generally, it should have been conducted under the International Advisory Council for the Preservation of the Ferrari Automobile ("IACPFA") rules.

    However, at each concours the judging is conducted by a set of individuals who can be subjective and have their own ideas concerning originality.

    Which brings us back to the Ferrari 365 GTB/4 judging and my experiences at several Ferrari annual concours. I have a 1971 Ferrari 365 GTB/4 which was made per US specifications which include smog pump, air injection ports, manifold and exhaust system. When I purchased the car those had been taken off the car to supposedly increase horsepower, so I had to go on a scavenger hunt for parts. I have taken the car to four Ferrari club annual concours and each time the judges found incorrect items and made deductions. After the concours in 2018 in New York, I sent the car to MOTION PRODUCTS, INC (the leading restorer of vintage Ferrari sports cars) for them to fix and prepare the car to the 2019 concours in Phoenix.

    It was at the 2019 Ferrari annual concours where I had the worst experience of judging. The set of three judges gave my car a score of 96.5 (just 1/2 a point from Platino). After the concours I requested a copy of the judges score sheet and discovered they have make deductions for not having: 1. a vanity mirror and tire pressure plate, 2. the correct radio antenna, 3. The correct license plate frame, and 4. Brass tire valve stems.

    After corresponding with Chis Current, chief concours and IAC/PFA judge, he said “Daytonas in particular are difficult as they made running changes over the model run so what is original on one car might not be on another” In summary, mathematical corrections from the above would have brought your car to the platinum level.

    “Regarding the vanity mirrors: your car may be correct, they were on the sun visors, as in earlier Daytona models, not in the glove compartment lid, as in later Daytona models. Your interior judge was looking for the vanity mirror and tire pressure placard. They appear to be located on the backside of the sun visors. When the judges asked us to open the glove box they did say what they were looking to check, if they had said something we could have directed them to the mirror and tire pressure placard on the sun visors.

    Radio antenna. A radio/antenna was an option that the original owner could request or not. Some cars came with the radio installed but the
    later ones might have been installed by the dealer. In any event, your radio should be period correct as well as the antenna. We simply
    do not have any records of what was installed in what car. This is similar guidance for the outside mirror

    Regarding license plates: the judging rule is that the license plates and mounts are not judged. If a plate surround is installed, it
    must be plain. The judges were in error if they deducted outside this long-established rule.

    The valve stem on Borranis should be plain (rubber). Some people install a small grommet to prevent chaffing from the sometimes
    over sized hole. There is a lack of good references as we cannot find who installed "jewelry" of this type on some cars. Surely
    Borrani did not but perhaps Ferrari or the coachbuilder did on certain cars. We do not have any records on what was installed
    on which Daytonas, if anything.


    While there are various books and literature for some Ferrari models, such as Dino Compendium by Matthias Bartz and numerous books written about the Ferrari 365 GTB/4 such as:

    Original Ferrari V12, 1965-1973, The Restorer’s Guide, by Keith Bluemel
    The Ferrari Legend, The Road Cars, by Antoine Prunet
    The Ferrari 365 GTB/4 Daytona, by Pat Branden and Gerald Roush
    World Supercars 1: Ferrari 365 GTB/4 Daytona, by Doug Nye and Paul Frere
    Original Ferrari V12, 1965-73 by Keith Bluemel
    The Daytona Registry by Paul Schwartz, Ferrari Judge
    Cavallino, 365 GTB/4 Daytona, Beauty or Beast, Or Possibly A Bit of Both, Issue No. 61, February/March 1991
    Barchetta.cc, Ferrari 365 GTB/4

    There are no set guidelines for evaluating the Ferrari 365 GTB/4 judges need to be better informed than saying their expertise as a judge is based upon a “card board box”

    “Thanks for your note regarding 14187 GT. I was once told that when all Daytonas arrived in North America, they were accompanied by a cardboard box that contained several items such as an exterior mirror, tools, books, a clear plastic cover for the grille intake area with elastic clips, and a rear license plate mounting frame and some other items that slip my mind. A friend of mine still has this box in his possession that originally came with his Daytona Spyder. All of the rear license plate frames had square corners. I have many photos showing these on cars on the lawn at Cavallino. “

    “I have found in my research that all Daytona’s ordered with a radio came with a Voxon electric antenna and Voxon interior radio speakers installed. See attached photos. The actual radios for North America and Canada were not installed. These were installed by the dealer network because the radios required different frequencies for North America and units installed were either of Blaupunkt or Becker manufacture.”

    Numerous other Ferrari owners have expressed displeasure and disappointment with the concours judging. They have become disgruntle and stopped coming to concours events and having their Ferrari judged. The Annual concours is supposed to be fun for all and it seems to losing it to some owners.

    So as Chris Current said, “In summary, mathematical corrections from the above would have brought your car to the platinum level.” However, since this was three weeks after the concurs it did little to alive the pain of not being eligible for Coppa Bella Machina. It seems there should be some type of judge’s review of the scoring prior to the end of the concours. Perhaps the chief judge and/or Coppa Bella personal could review the scoring sheets if a car is a point or point and half from the Platino award.
     
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  10. enio45

    enio45 Formula 3
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    interesting thoughts - i have a few to elaborate on related my experience at Cavallino this past Jan that similarly unjust.

    need to gather my thoughts and ill be back to this to elaborate.
     
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  11. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2004
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    I heard from someone that having covers had to do with whether the wheels were shod with Dunlop or Pirelli, in which case the inner tubes would be one or the other, and the stem of the inner tube would then accept the cover or not. Has anyone else heard this?

    john
     
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  13. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    romano schwabel
    the tubes inside the spoke wheels have several different valves: small ones then with cover, big ones without cover and those with a thread ( I think then without cover?)
     

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