Vettel is too mentally weak to win

Discussion in 'F1' started by ATBNM3, May 13, 2018.

  1. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    Mental toughness.

    I wonder, have any of us here driven a formula 1 car in its current configuration? No?? Didn't think so. We have no notion of how hard it is to drive that fast, for that long, no matter HOW good the car is.

    The longest stretch of track time I've ever done totaled about an hour and a half, OVER SIX SESSIONS with breaks in between. I was exhausted mentally at the end, and my top speed was about 130 mph driving a 360. I can't imagine how much harder driving these is.

    Now if you want to talk comparative toughness, or APPARENT comparisons, sure, we can do that. Who's the baddest ass driver you've ever watched? The one with the biggest balls, willing to push the limit every time around the track, who has no problem shoving another driver out of the way? Now, compare that guy to the current batch of drivers. Vettel, Hamilton, pick one, any one, and tell me if they're as tough as your BEST example, in your mind. I'd be interested to know how you guys feel about it. Watching Lauda battle with Hunt, watching Lauda get BACK in a car after he was damn near burned to death, well, that was one mentally tough guy, but not one of my favorite drivers.

    Wold ANY of these guys get back in the car if they had a really horrific accident and drive competitively?

    I don't think Vettel folds under pressure any more than Hamilton does. I do think drivers whine more now, but so do ALL professional athletes.

    D
     
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  2. 635CSI

    635CSI Formula 3
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    But Seb has raced in a **** car (2016) and battled on. I don't worry about him, I don't really worry about the car either. Given the way this whole current formula was structured to Mercedes we have done well on that front. I do though have major concerns about strategy. Merc and red Bull play chess, we play (at best) Checkers/draughts
     
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  3. 635CSI

    635CSI Formula 3
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    Great post.
    Before the words mental toughness were used, we called it bravery. previous generations had it in spades.
    Maybe in different circumstances this generation would have it too, our soldiers do, but this generation of driver does not consider that risk of life is a price worth paying to win a motor race.
     
  4. Natkingcolebasket69

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    The goat is ayrton senna in my opinion.Those guys are just rich babies who got it easy.
    Those f1 are much easier to drive than the old ones. I have driven 7 laps as a bday gift one of the jaguar v10 back home in France. It wasn’t a race of course but as i am a former athlete i found it relatively easy physically to do so. Of course setting up a great time is different.
    Unlike track and field it is impossible to tell who is the best driver in the world. It is more a question of who amongst who has the opportunity and wealth to drive is the best& of course the best car.
    See anyone or close can run and nobody can beat ussain bolt, pretty much a fact. For driving how many of us had rich parents to get us through driving school etc? The cost to enter this kind of sport is prohibiting most people to ever attempt it.
    Some will say but lewis hamilton was poor, yeah right; he certainly wasn’t poor like some of those success stories you see in the nfl, nba, soccer u name it.
    At the end i truly think the best drivers were in the 60-90’s period... just watching max verstappen makes me realize how this has all become a video game.


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  5. ktu

    ktu Karting

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    I disagree, i think talent is born everyday. F1 drivers today are some of the best drivers in the world. When Schumacher and Senna was winning, the older guys like Sterling Moss said "Those cars have wide tires, downforce and electronics, what a bunch of mentally weak chumps". So this stuff is said about every generation
     
  6. tifoso2728

    tifoso2728 F1 Veteran
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    People talk about these things because we can. Meaning, there is no shortage of forums for opinion like this. So we end up analyzing things to death because we can.

    And, these drivers are constantly having microphones shoved in their faces asking about anything and everything. Therefore they try to come up with answers about why and how their car or team wasn't quite as quick as they others. To some, this might come across as whining when they give the best answers they can at that moment.

    It's just professional drivers trying to do what is probably the most loathed part of their jobs.
     
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  8. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 Veteran
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    You rate our strategy that highly? I think my two year old could outwit ferrari strategy at times, maybe snap is more our game
     
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  9. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 Veteran
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    No he didn’t...... Stirling respected the drivers. The comments were of course made about how much improved safety at circuits was, and that the run offs allowed drivers to take the piss running off road sometimes, but I never heard him, or any other respected driver, refer to schumi or Senna as mentally weak chumps.... total supposition and completely wrong

    Various respected drivers have, however, commented on Elton’s weak disposition at times in his career, either when crashing into his teammate rather than be second, or parking his car at the entrance to the tunnel at Monaco on the slow down lap as though we’d all think he was Senna, or bashing into Massa at every opportunity.
     
  10. ktu

    ktu Karting

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    Stirling moss on Hamilton :
    “Lewis is almost in a class of his own; Lewis and Vettel probably, and Alonso to an extent,” he said.
    “I think he takes him (Rosberg) seriously anyway. Nico is terrific but I think that Lewis is just that little bit faster and if it’s the fastest man who is going to win then it’s likely to be Lewis – he really is terrific.”

    https://www.google.com/amp/www.skysports.com/amp/f1/news/12433/9896594/sir-stirling-moss-has-praised-bernie-ecclestones-f1-contribution
     
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  11. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 Veteran
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    Try Jackie Stewart’s take on his antics at Monaco, armours including sir Stirling when he crashed into Nico on purpose to take both out the race, and on numerous occasions. We can all find the odd statement about him that praise him, there’s a lot more out there that don’t. Even Niki Lauda has expressed how thick he can be at times, remarking how Nico understood the controls in the car better, and also had a pop at him when he arrived at Baku late and hadn’t bothered to learn the track
     
  12. Tifosi Ferrari

    Tifosi Ferrari Formula Junior

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    Non of the drivers who won championships had weak teams as the winners. They can win 1 or 2 races but they cannot win a title which is more important by far. Senna won title with Mclaren cause they were the best at the time the best team. The one I think who won in district rather not so great teams would be Michael Schumacher who pushed Benetton and (at the time) Ferrari to become champions. Probably Jackie also he hasn't won a title with a maker like Ferrari for example or Ford. He won in independent teams which while was less stress times still wasn't well made out of money like the makers.
     
  13. ktu

    ktu Karting

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    Yes you can find the greats being critical of ALL the drivers, not just Hamilton. Out of all the criticisms in your above post, none them said he was not one of the best drivers this era
     
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  15. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 Veteran
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    But not THE best mate, and that’s what you elton fans forget..... no one here ever says he isn’t good, we don’t agree with you lot that he is THE best. He will never, even if he had 15 championships, equal schumi or Senna as a driver because we have all seen how **** he is if the car is not the class of the field. Schumi and Senna could outdrive their cars supposed performance week in, week out, and the drivers in the best cars were TERRIFIED of them. No one is terrified of elton, not on the track anyway. In the Mercedes era, they are battling the car, he just happens to drive it. When he ain’t winning, bottles does, and bottles is never ever lauded as the best driver in f1, not even top five, somwhy put elton on such a pedestal. He’s paid the most money so Mercedes back him over the number two driver, just as Vettel gets preference over Kimi, and Maxine is red bulls favourite son
     
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  16. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    There are a half dozen really elite drivers in the current batch, right? So, are they elite because their cars are the best, or do they wring every last ounce of performance out of their cars to make them the best?

    I wonder what a Lauda, Andretti, Hunt, Stewart, or Fangio (to name just a few) would be able to do, in their prime, with the current crop of Mercedes and Ferraris, vs. what a Hamilton or Vettel would do with a 70's era F1 car.

    Do we immortalize those who no longer are behind the wheel, look back wistfully at an earlier time, when men were men, and cars were cars just because it seems more exciting?

    Vettel is a superior driver, so is Hamilton. Both can be a bit whiny, but on any given Sunday in their current cars, they can win. I suspect with some wheel time, they'd be successful in almost any automotive venue. Not sure they'd do real well in NASCAR, but only one way to find out. That's why the IROC races were so much fun. Put guys from multiple racing formats in cars that are equal, and let 'em battle it out.

    But I think you guys sometimes work it too hard. Accepting that a competing brand is as good or better than the one you support, can be tough. Admitting that part of the reason is they have a superior driver as well, makes it doubly tough. Who wouldn't want the BEST drivers piloting their favorite manufacturer? I mean really, if Hamilton came over to Ferrari, it would almost certainly, end once and forever the argument over if he's that good, or just in the right place at the right time.

    I would love to see that.

    D
     
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  17. ktu

    ktu Karting

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    I chose to believe Ross Brawn and others who's actually a part of F1 who's stated Ham IS one of the greats, sorry.
     
  18. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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  19. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 Veteran
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    I know Ross, and he respects the driver...... he didn’t answer about the man though...telling

    He however waxes lyrical about Michael as much as he can, in every way, the consummate man and driver, and someone everyone would want to hire. Elton, no one wants him except Mercedes, so he’s lucky for them!
     
  20. ktu

    ktu Karting

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    Man Hamilton blazed Schumacher with a epic pass in the China GP 2010! And he will blaze you too! Go home
     
  21. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 Veteran
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    Jesus Christ, you don’t give up do you. You have to just accept Elton’s a tool, because otherwise, don’t you see how you look? It’s like being friends with the stinky kid at school, eventually, everyone assumes you stink as well hehehehehe :)
     
  22. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 Veteran
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    Yeah, it was so funny watching him play dodgem driver when she was trying to get away from him. I bet she had half a dozen suitors on the go just waiting for him to get in his car, that’s why he went to pieces...... poor little fella. Then again, I don’t think it was actually Nicole he missed, more he missed the protection it gave him from certain allegations that were prevalent then
     
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  23. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    Grasping at straws. A young Hamilton entering his prime vs Schumacher past his prime. Ok. Let’s put a 38 yr old Muhammad Ali against 23-year-old Mike Tyson and when Mike Tyson destroys him talk about how much better Tyson is… Is he? Really? No. Certainly not.
     
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  24. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 Veteran
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    If the ferrari wasn’t the class of the field, he’d be found wanting, just as he was in the mclaren when it wasn’t the quickest car, and the Mercedes when they can’t get it working at full potential.... he’s fast, but he isn’t anything above that, unlike a schumi, a Senna, or any other top top driver
     
  25. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

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    ....and talking about a Single race....what about this kid Vettel overtaking Lewis in a TR In Brazil in the wet for exactly the position Hamilton needed for the WDC... by that argumentation seen above that would mean Lewis is nowhere near Vettel.
    Does not sound reasonable? Well, the Lewis/Michael comparison!

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  26. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 Veteran
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    But your argument makes perfect sense, and for theirs to be accurate, they would have to accept yours. It’s a conundrum only solved one way as far as they are concerned........ they are right and you must still be wrong, no matter how little sense they make when they say it..... :)
     
  27. tifoso2728

    tifoso2728 F1 Veteran
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    How do you feel about Kimi? It's a given that Kimi won the 2007 Championship because Hamilton made mistakes. Of course, since then Hamilton has scored 4 World Championships and Kimi none. Mental toughness? I would say both Hamilton and Vettel have plenty! Their results confirm it.
     

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