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Voting Is a few a days away

Discussion in 'Canada' started by MS250, Jun 25, 2004.

  1. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 10, 2003
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    Since we started talking about current events in another thread, I thought it would only be correct to call the title "Voting".
    So with the FIBERALS and CUN*SERVATIVES in a tie do you think we are better off in a Minority government.

    I for one think we have no choice. Conservatives added the GST,the Liberals said they would remove it, and didnt. NDP in Ontario racked up 10 billion in debt, PC, cut everything in Ontartio. I think they are all a crock of crap.What do we do?

    Voting Green !!
     
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  3. Tactic

    Tactic Karting

    Nov 13, 2003
    67
    Richmond.bc.ca
    Pretty much have the same discision as you. Except I'm voting for myself and making my ballet void and so is the rest of my family. I'll a good 10-20 votes for me come Election day..
     
  4. MuJo

    MuJo Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2004
    373
    Toronto, ON
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    Joel R.
    Don't spoil your ballot. I have a better way. Spoiling your ballot, or not even voting IS a wasted vote, and you end up getting what you deserve, and you shouldn't complain about what you have either.

    There is a mechanism in place that is not talked about that much, but anyone who is eligible to vote can take advantage of.

    It's called "Declining your Vote.

    This is NOT spoiling or not voting at all. True, you are not voting for anyone, but you are registering you dissatisfaction with Elections Canada (they keep the statistics) that no one is worthy of your vote. Elections Canada then distributes these statistics to the political parties. Now, the parties can see how dissatisfied you are.

    Here's how it works. On election day, when you walk up to the returning officer at your polling station, show them the card you got in the mail with appropriate ID if asked. They will confirm you are on the list, and hand you over a ballot. Now instead of heading to the little cardboard cubby hole thingy to vote, you immediately return the ballot to the returning officer and tell them that you wish to decline your vote. The returning officer then places the UNMARKED ballot in a seperate envelope that is meant for declined ballots, and makes a note that your ballot was declined. You are done and walk out. When the votes are counted later, the declined votes are counted seperately and that information is then submitted to Elections Canada to record the results just like the regular votes.

    That's it. Again, you have registered your dissatisfaction with all the candidates and your vote is not wasted. In fact you legally DID vote. But you didn't vote for anyone on the ballot. BTW, if you put your own name or someone elses on the ballot, or mark it up in any way, your vote is spoiled and goes in another pile to be recorded as a spoiled ballot.

    I might be doing the decline thing on Monday. But I still have a couple of days to decide. I DID do this in our last provincial (Ontario) election. I actually felt pretty good when I walked out of the polliing station. It was pretty obvious that no one was to be trusted in any of the parties.

    Best,

    Joel
     
  5. Peter

    Peter F1 Veteran
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    Dec 21, 2000
    6,403
    B.C., Canada
    That's an excellent and responsible method Joel, but in reality, its still one vote less, just like spoiling a vote.

    Extremely dissatisfied with every single one of them. Still don't know which devil to vote for...
     
  6. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I had heard about that yrs ago joel...though its something to consider my question is still with why are we not allowed to hold our politicians accountable. Why can we not ask for revote like they did in California. Mcginny has lied more than my rug yet we cannot move a strike forward to do what was done in California in a recall. As for the feds, we'll thats another story....Martin took billions of $$$ from Ontario in transfer funds, now wants to put some back. Its like my ferrari driving with no oil, and then doing an oil change with a fresh service...too late.

    Lets not start talking about the criminals in jail who also have a right to vote. A murderer can vote, but the 3 people he/she kills dont, and my vote to off set his actually cost another vote to go par. What type of society are we living in when we are accepting these rules?

    I will still vote and go the route of the underdog, only to offset any potential majority, just like the provincial election here in Ontario. I went NDP just so it wouldnt be a full liberal sweep. unfortunately, my vote didnt matter yet again.
    Why do we take this sitting down all the time here when these politicains are all misguiding us?
     
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  8. Ferrariguy2

    Ferrariguy2 F1 Rookie

    Apr 5, 2004
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    Chief
    I am definately voting conservative.
     
  9. Skyler

    Skyler Formula 3

    May 31, 2004
    1,856
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    Skyler
    I am not voting, because i believe that we are being brainwashed into voting for a certain group... you may think i am crazy but i hope you know that the perty spends about 25 cents of each dollar towards their next campaign.... think of all the signs you see on the road.... i cannot go 10 metres without seeing a stupid sign... anyways... if i were to vote i would do so for the NDP.. they deserve a chance... but like every other party... once elected, its not like they will keep any of their promises either!
     
  10. JOEV

    JOEV F1 Rookie
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  11. ClassicFerrari

    ClassicFerrari F1 World Champ
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    Ahhh......Toronto has been painted in Rosso Red. And Congrats to my friend Tony Ianno for kicking Olivia Chow's ass in my area. You got my vote paisano!

    Vasco.R
     
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  13. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 6, 2003
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    Ryan Alexander
    I'm shocked that they would re-elect the Liberals after all of this huge scandal crap. As a Canadian this is just embarassing.

    Luckily Americans don't know Cdn politics otherwise I wouldn't hear the end of this from my friends.

    Hearing the 'victory' speech and the NDP speech vowing the pursuit of more social programs, made me sad... Canada will soon be renamed Scandicanada.
     
  14. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    Ryalex.....

    We've been fooked for decades as you know.

    Now with a Liberal minority in power with the NDP propping them up, it's only going to get worse.

    If your American friends think Kerry is a leftist......they'd love it here as our politicians would make him look like a Republican.
     
  15. JOEV

    JOEV F1 Rookie
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    ...don't know if it's a real guy, but food for thought (even though it's too late this time).

    Hello.
    Please do Not Forget to Get Out and Vote on June 28th or at the Advance

    Poll in your area. IT IS YOUR DUTY so exercise this Democratic Right----- Vote!!!
    My name is Alan Robberstad
    I am a Canadian.
    One voter out of millions of Canadian voters.
    Paul Martin is no friend of mine.
    Liberal governments have not made my life any better.
    Liberal governments have made the future worse for my children.
    Jean Chretien and the Liberal Party became Prime
    Minister many years ago.
    Guess who was the Liberal Finance Minister.....Paul
    Martin...LEST WE FORGET
    Since 1993:
    (1) My taxes have increased.
    (2) My family's share of the national debt has increased.
    (3) My personal expenses have increased.
    (4) My waiting time to see a doctor has increased.
    (5) My concerns for my family's safety have increased.
    (6) My costs to educate my children have increased.
    (7) Government interference in my life has increased.
    (8) My personal debt has increased.
    (9) My income has stayed more or less the same.
    (10) My savings have decreased.
    (11) The buying power of my dollar, in Canada, has decreased.
    (12) The value of my dollar, in the U.S., has decreased.
    (13) My trust of elected officials has decreased.
    (14) My trust in the justice system has decreased.
    (15 )My trust in the immigration system has decreased.
    (16) My hope that a Liberal won't waste my tax dollars has decreased.
    (17 )My dreams for a better future for my kids, in Canada, have disappeared.
    That is my story since the Liberals came to power.
    I am not voting for Paul Martin's Liberals.
    I am voting against Paul Martin and his Liberal Party on June 28, 2004.
    I am voting for Stephen Harper and the Conservative Party.
    Do I like the Conservatives?
    Not particularly......I don't really like Politics.
    I am not political by nature.
    I am not passionate about politics.
    I am a middle age guy (48).
    I live in a small house on a fairly quiet street in Edmonton.
    I have a wife, Kathy, and two children (ages 19 and 17).
    I have no pets.
    I am a middle class man.
    I don't usually say too much.
    Until now.
    Now I am going to say something!
    In 35 of the past 37 years, Canada has been ruled by:
    (1) Pierre Trudeau - a multi-millionaire lawyer from Quebec.
    (2) Brian Mulroney - a multi-millionaire lawyer from Quebec.
    (3) Jean Chretien - a multi-millionaire lawyer from Quebec.
    (4) And now we are going to vote for Paul Martin???? - a
    multi-millionaire lawyer from Quebec???
    The leader of the Conservative party, Stephen Harper, is:
    (1) Not a lawyer.
    (2) Not a multi-millionaire.
    (3) Not from Quebec.
    Stephen Harper says that the Conservative party will:
    (1) Reduce my taxes.
    (2) Pay off the national debt as fast as they can.
    (3) Shrink the size and influence of the federal government.
    That's good enough for me.
    I'm going to give the Conservative party a chance with my vote.
    But wait!
    Paul Martinis now saying the same thing.
    My mother told me forty years ago:
    "Fool me once - shame on you.
    Fool me twice - shame on me!"
    The Liberals have had 34 years to be financially responsible.
    Remember, Jean Chretien was Trudeau's Finance Minister.
    Remember also, Paul Martin was Jean Chretien's Finance Minister
    These people have been raising my taxes for thirty four years.
    They have been mis-spending my tax dollars for 34 years.
    34 years!
    And now Paul Martin says he'll stop taxing and spending.
    No way.
    Thank you for reading my story so far!
    Why am I telling my story to you?
    Although I feel alone, I know that I am not alone.
    Your story may be similar to mine.
    And you may also feel alone.
    One small voter in the midst of millions of voters.
    What can you and I do together to change things?
    Here is my idea:
    Lets you and I join up together.
    Just you and I.
    Together.
    As a small team of two.
    How can you and I fight a huge political machine?
    You and I have two things that we can use:
    (1) Our individual personal connections.
    (2) The Internet.
    The Internet is supposed to be this global zing tool, right?
    Let's put it to use.
    I have 27 Canadians in my personal e-mail address book.
    I am sending this e-mail to each of them.
    I'm asking you to do two things:
    (1) Forward this e-mail to every Canadian in your own address book.
    (2) Vote against Paul Martin and the Liberal Party on June 28.
    Vote for the Conservative candidate in your riding.
    I have probably written this e-mail too late.
    As I said I am not politically adroit.
    I feel like Peter Finch, in the 1976 movie "Network",
    when he shouted:
    "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!"
    Please, forward the e-mail RIGHT NOW!!
    As I type these last few words the voting begins in less than 18 days.
    432 hours till voting begins.
    I hope the Internet is as fast as some people claim it is.
    This may not work.
    This e-mail may "fizzle out" and go nowhere.
    But you and I will have tried, won't we have?
    My best wishes to you.
    My best wishes to Canadians everywhere.
    My thanks to David Stokes from Toronto
    He actually wrote this just (5) days before the last federal
    election in 2000.
    Fool me once - shame on you.
    Fool me twice - shame on me!"
    Alan Robberstad
    Edmonton, Alberta
    June 10, 2004@ 3:00 p.m.
     
  16. ClassicFerrari

    ClassicFerrari F1 World Champ
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    Jan 7, 2004
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    Vasco

    Oh c'mon Ryan are you telling me that the U.S don't do the same if not worse at times. It happens everywhere, not that it's a good thing.

    Oh by the way I watched Ferenheight/911 (Did I spell that right?LOL) Sunday nite, very interesting movie indeed.

    Vasco.R
     
  17. eholody

    eholody Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    103
    Montreal, Quebec
    What a shameful result. The apathy Canadian people has primed them for another term of no progress, yet plentiful corruption.

    The 'braindrain' will continue...
     
  18. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    Apparently it was the lowest voter turnout ever.
     
  19. MuJo

    MuJo Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2004
    373
    Toronto, ON
    Full Name:
    Joel R.
    I wouldn't be too sure that this new government is going to be worse. Some people (Politicians) believe that majority governments are better. Sure they do. A majority government can pick our pockets even more. That's what's been happening since after Joe Clarke's government from 1979/80 the last minority government.

    I believe as do many, that minority governments are much better. The government MUST be more accountable to the populace. Even the governments themselves recognize this. Oh sure, they acknowledge this, and role play our concerns, but the PM and his cronies all the way on down the line are not happy. Now they can't raise taxes that easily if at all. Remember Dalton and company in Ontario? If he had a minority government, you can bet pink slips that there would be no health tax in his budget. If he had tried, then the legislature would have already struck him down with a non-confidence vote. We'd be at the provincial polls again this month.

    Minority governments actually can be effective governments. They still don't last more then 18 months to 2 years, but lots of good things can happen in that time. I think many of us know that we will be headed back to the polls within 2 years to try again to elect a more "stable" government (majority), but it is my hope that another minority will ensue.

    Best,

    Joel
     
  20. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    All I keep thinking about is I am now the minority. Its all these immigrants that have voted this way who DO NOt WORK and pay taxes. Every paper this morning has advised that the taxpayer in Ontatrio, Canada just got more taxes added on to there earnings. And I agree, I find it hard to believe that any hard working citizen went liberal this time around.

    Liberal smear campain worked I see, I hope everyone is forced to pay 70% of there earnings to taxes. I to would stop working and collect welfare, and unemployment, Im so sick and tired of these guys getting 100k pensions and people coming to my city, stealing my contents of my home, sleeping in my hospital because they have a sore throat, and on top of that getting an income from the government.

    This was a beautiful country.....welcome to the third world.
     
  21. Kds

    Kds F1 World Champ

    "Kanaduh" is already a third world country....this much is correct. We're just masquerading as a first world one, and no one has called us on it yet.

    Believe me.....I also live on and off in a third world country (Brasil).......so I am speaking from a first hand experience here.

    MuJo....

    So you are telling me that the NDP is going to stop the Liberals from raising taxes or whatever other socialist things they want to do to placate their voter base ? Maybe you want to edit your post first. No offence meant.....but I understand what you are saying.....I just find it hard to believe given the nature of what we are dealing with here.
     
  22. JOEV

    JOEV F1 Rookie
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    Aug 6, 2003
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    Rick,

    I hope you will agree that while there are plenty of no account immigrants and phoney refugees, there are also countless hard working, tax paying immigrants in Canada.

    Maybe I misunderstood you, but you seemed completely anti-all immigrants.
     
  23. MuJo

    MuJo Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2004
    373
    Toronto, ON
    Full Name:
    Joel R.
    The NDP can't do too much. They don't hold the balance of power. Both the Libs, and NDP together is 1 seat shy of a majority. Yet, their voice can still be loud enough to keep checks and balances....in check.

    Now (unfortunately) the Bloc have a pretty good playing hand going into this mandate. The Bloc claim that they will only do things on an issue by issue basis, but I don't think it will take a brain surgeon to figure out that they can help bring a non-confidence vote in the house very easily. Also, the Tories, can colaborate with the other parties to bring Paul Martin to his knees. But because of the radical platform that the other parties detest in the Tories, this might not be easy, but in politics, you just never know. This is the democracy we live in.

    I'm all for proportional representation that the NDP keeps harping about. I hope that the Libs will listen because Canada is one of the very few remaining democracies that still uses the antiquated "First Past the Post" electoral process.

    I also believe that Canada should adopt some kind of forced voter turn-out like they do in Australia. I don't know what form of "forced turn-out" legislation this would be, but the popular vote percentages are just nothing short of pathetic everytime we have an election. And everytime, the numbers are less and less.

    I'm looking forward in the coming weeks to find out what kind of coalition will gel in the 38th parliament. Especially the back door deals.

    Best,

    Joel
     
  24. b-mak

    b-mak F1 Veteran

    The Ianno win vs. Chow was the best news of this election!
     
  25. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    You didnt misunderstand. My parents are immigrants as many in this country. But we cannot contiue to look at the past for our success. Immigrants were successful because they were honest and hard working. I strongly believe the break down of society is becoming of immigrants that do not belong here. I think the ratio of hard working tax paying immigrants is far less than in yester years. Too bad theres no real stat out there, but I believe I would be correct.

    I believe the Liberals won in Ontario because a majority of people dont work hard, believe in a flase platform like the liberals and the NDP promote. Everyone I know voted PC because they are hard working and the taxes are to high in Canada.Do you know criminals are allowed to vote in prison? Why do they have the same rights as honest citizens?

    I know what a liberal would say to me. You own a ferrari what do you care of a few extra bucks. On my inciome I should be able ot own many ferraris and do as I please with my hard earned money. And the first thing should not be to pay 50% on personal income tax, and 15% on everyhting else. Hence, the people that do not work but freeload save that 50% and get to enjoy the other goodies of Canada on my dime.Thats why Im pissed, if you look at that immigrant months before they came I bet you a bag of donuts they didnt even know what an pill was, now my hospitals are all full of non speaking, dirty new comers to steal my freedom and I have to pay for them to have a $50 pill at the hospital. Thats who voted for my health care premium, and the liberals in the fed election. Not hard working tax payers.
    P.S Im entilted to my opinion !!!
     
  26. JOEV

    JOEV F1 Rookie
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    Never said you weren't entitled to your opinion.
     
  27. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I know !!
     
  28. MuJo

    MuJo Formula Junior

    Jan 5, 2004
    373
    Toronto, ON
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    Joel R.
    I'm forced to agree with you Big Red. My Dad is an immigrant, and a very hard working one. Or he was hard working, he's retired now, but you get the drift.

    You know, he talks about your exact issues all the time, and it really makes you think. My Brother-in-law is very vocal on some of these issues as well, especially the freeloader one.

    I've ranted somewhat in this thread, and I'm not actually a political type of dood, but I do take quite an interest come election time, and these issues are front and centre for many people.

    People always complain that there is no one else to vote for. I disagree. Change is good, and we need to change the government now and again to keep from being complacent. AFAIC, the Liberals have made Canada the butt of many jokes around the world, especially to our friends down south.

    We've just re-elected pretty much the "same old, same old." Besides some back door deals to make the coalition work, nothing will really change for Canada on the world stage.

    Best,

    Joel
     

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