water pump 355

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by panterasteve, Oct 22, 2006.

  1. pistole

    pistole Formula Junior

    Jan 31, 2005
    754
    Malaysia
    just to make this clear in my own head , you're saying that the
    355 water pump bearing is a Ferrari-only unit ?

    and you're saying this because of Ferrari being worried about the
    "side load" on this bearing application ?

    how sure are you of this ?

    if there are equivalent SKF numbers for both bearing , would you still
    say that the OE bearing is "Ferrari-only" ?

    thanks.

    .
     
  2. brian.s

    brian.s F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,535
    Midwest
    Full Name:
    Brian
    When a doctor charges an "office visit" fee, we rarely question the fact that they basically impart a few seconds of their knowledge to fix us, and at say $240 an hour your logic says that the bill should be what? $0.50?
    If I spend several hours dissecting the intricate potential problems within a 355 alternator issue, subsequent cars are fixed much quicker. But who pays? Not the original individual, he is not billed $6-800, but maybe $200 and a fixed car. Thereafter, the charge becomes the same for any following customer. And yes, I will pm my findings to others so that they can learn/critique from it, just like reading the shop manual/tech buletins. Oh, and are they free? No doubt they aren't.

    Brian
     
  3. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    May 21, 2005
    51,209
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways

    Then this is all a big misunderstanding.
     
  4. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    23,759
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    You seem to have those a lot.
     
  5. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    May 21, 2005
    51,209
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways

    LOL!

    Yes, well, there are a lot of ways to look at cars, and even more ways to look at parts/repairs, so a beginner such as myself is to be expected to have a few misunderstandings along the way.

    On the plus side though, once I do finally get something right, I have a gift of then being able to explain that one thing very well to all audiences.
     
  6. 355

    355 F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Jan 4, 2005
    3,643
    Toronto
    Full Name:
    Frank
    Been reading this thread along with many others and they are very informative to say the least. I have seen many on here thank those that help us out so we can keep our cars on the road at a minimal cost. Mimimal cost meaning that we learn to spend money where and when it should be spent so that we dont pay through the nose later. It is a good thing when we can buy the OEM part much cheaper than the dealer price and if someone knows of a replacement part that is cheaper and possibly better than the oem the great. It does bother me somewhat when some disagree and start calling others names but I guess that is the nature in all of us to some degree or another. I have not had any problems with my 355 water pump yet(knock on wood) and did not change it in my engine out service this past summer. Hopefully it will hang in there a few more years. Im sure that there are replacement bearings out there that have been improved over the ones installed in ferraris in the last decade. But I may be wrong. I wonder if Hill engineering is working on a better bearing for this water pump. They claim to have made a better tensioner bearing for the 355 then the OEM. Thanks to all the wrenches and others who post on here. It makes it easier to own these beautiful machines. Its nice to fix the odd thing yourself. Now lets all get along.....LOL

    Would love to bench test an OEM vs After market waterpump and see which would stand up longer by rigging the pumps up to a electric motor with a much increased belt tension.
     
  7. Tired of seeing this ad? Upgrade now
  8. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    May 21, 2005
    51,209
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways

    That's a very nice idea.
     
  9. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    23,759
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall


    As an admitted beginner maybe you should limit the advice you hand out to areas you know instead of jumping in and handing out so much bad advice.

    You have led countless people here astray with your misinformation.

    That is all many have asked of you.
     
  10. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    May 21, 2005
    51,209
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways

    That's a legitimate request, and I have no problem with it. I think that I should make it more clear in my posts that I am an amateur, a simple 348 owner turned beginner-wrencher recently...if for nothing else that my style of typing seems to somehow convey otherwise.

    In all fairness in this case, I posted aftermarket waterpump contact information for a potential buyer to investigate, and I am personally running an aftermarket waterpump in my own 348, so I trust that meets with your concept of posting about what one knows firsthand.

    If I experience a failure, that too will be posted. I have no vested interest in propping up substandard parts. Quite the contrary; I want 348's to be more road worthy rather than less.
     
  11. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
    4,566
    Full Name:
    Dave Helms

    Yes I did, thank you VERY much. My Captin Crunch secret decoder ring is on the fritz but should have a billet reproduction done by this evening.

    I'm throwing in the towel. Calling uncle, you win. I am starting to think I beat my head against the wall just because it feels so good when I stop, but hey, it good lunch time entertainment.

    I have no want for this to go off in directions that have nothing to do with the origional question. My point was simply to point out the "Better and cheaper than OE" claims must be highly questioned.

    Dave
     
  12. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    May 21, 2005
    51,209
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways

    Would someone, anyone, with firsthand experience of aftermarket waterpump failures please post your direct experience?


    Anyone?
     
  13. 285ferrari

    285ferrari F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    Sep 11, 2004
    19,376
    Southern Md
    Full Name:
    Robbie
    Since we are talking about 355 water pumps. How much is a used one worth??? I had mine replaced on my 355 during a recent major. The dealer said the pulley had a "little" play, but was not leaking at all. Better to be safe than sorry and the motor was out, so I had it replaced with a stock Ferrari unit. I have the old one here and wondered if it is worth anything??? Not sure if it needs to be rebuilt or not. I guess worse case if it needed to be rebuilt, is it worth anything or should I throw it in the dumpster?? Came out of a 98 355 with 9k miles on it..
     
  14. Tired of seeing this ad? Upgrade now
  15. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    May 21, 2005
    51,209
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    That's good data to know about a factory waterpump. With enough firsthand data like that, more informed purchase decisions could be made by Ferrari owners.
     
  16. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    23,759
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    For the sake of putting whatever data you collect in perspective the aftermarket suppliers of rebuilt waterpumps have not been around very long. At least they were unknown to most until very recent years. I also think that at least on the west coast their use is very rare. As I said I have never even laid eyes on one.

    There are aftermarket new pumps available for the 355 and are in wide distribution. When I say aftermarket it should be understood they are the genuine item from the OE source and are sold outside Ferrari supply stream because for whatever reason Ferrari does not have a proprietary contract for them.

    At this point many dealers and other shops will not even use them because there have been some failures and there is no warranty coverage. To many that may not be considered important. But consider this, I recently had a customer have a failure of a minor part that I installed. It was not readily known that the part failed but upon investigation I found that part to be responsible for a motor being destroyed in a TR. I proved to Ferrari that failure of that $30 dollar part was directly responsible for the motor failure and Ferrari rebuilt his motor at no cost to the owner including my bill for proving causation. That was on a car that was out of warranty for 18 years.
    They only accepted liability because I was able to prove I purchased that part from a Ferrari Dealer.


    There are certain critical parts I will not purchase any other way and for just that reason.
     
  17. 285ferrari

    285ferrari F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    Sep 11, 2004
    19,376
    Southern Md
    Full Name:
    Robbie
    Can't believe Ferrari stepped up and took responsibiltiy for a part failure. That is great..I would think that they never would accept the parts failure..
     
  18. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    May 21, 2005
    51,209
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways

    Thanks. That's a very valuable and worthy point. I remember reading sometime back your thread on a TR engine failure that was going to go to the mat or otherwise have war raged while the car sat parked in the meantime.

    Perhaps you'd be so kind as to start a new thread not on that per se, but on Ferrari paying for an engine rebuild 18 years out of warranty, and what processes were involved (e.g. where parts were purchased, what was done after the failure to get Ferrari to step up to the plate, etc.).

    Surely such a thread could serve as a beginning blueprint for other Ferrari owners to consider following if they want a shot at getting a similar response from Ferrari.
     
  19. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    23,759
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    It is very simple, Ferrari parts come with a warranty, just like the cars. In many cases there is no doubt that due to the nature of the part that it has a low probability of causing problems when it fails but things like timing belts, oil filters, use you imagination, are worth paying for Ricambi Originali. Vendors like Ricambi America are good also because he is selling the stuff in yellow boxes.

    As far as getting coverage the warranty says Ferrari will pay P+L if installed by a dealer and P only if not. Also it says they are not responsible for consequential damage. Thats B.S. and they know it. They like to throw their weight around and intimidate because of their name. A number of the folks at 250 Sylvan Ave know me anyway and since I have left the dealer world they and I have been round and round and they know that doesn't work well here so they don't even try anymore. Anyway you just need to prove to a mechanical certainty that their part failed to perform it's intended function and that it was not compromised by external forces. They really have little choice. They are selling a product with an implied promise that it will perform a function. Just prove it does not.

    The deal on the TR was handled over the phone and a few emails. At one point they sent an old friend over from FSF to eyes on the part and the deal was done. A couple of days later I got a check. I love cashing the ones from FNA.
     
  20. No Doubt

    No Doubt Five Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    May 21, 2005
    51,209
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways

    Thanks. Is there an accepted time limit for the parts warranty for items that arrive in official yellow Ferrari packaging? I'm presuming that a documented chain needs to be in hand, too (e.g. receipt, packing slip)?
     
  21. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    23,759
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Parts warranty has changed and keeps getting longer. I think it is 12 months.

    Yes you will need those documents.
     
  22. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    83,847
    Mount Isa, Australia
    Full Name:
    Pap

    Unbelievable they repaired that engine!! What was the $30 part that failed? If you dont mind me asking? ;)
     
  23. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 29, 2001
    15,594
    Seattle, WA USA
    Full Name:
    Hugh G. Rection
    Sorry to toss gasoline on this thread, but here is one of those guys offering the inexpensive rebuilt Ferrari water pumps on Ebay: http://snipurl.com/10o34
     

Share This Page