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What 2+2 to get

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Stickanddice, Feb 10, 2004.

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  1. Stickanddice

    Stickanddice Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2002
    2,473
    #1 Stickanddice, Feb 10, 2004
    My wife will be needing a 2+2 with some decent room for the rear passengers for when she goes out with friends. Suggestions would be welcome. My current choices are, in no particular order: Maserati QP, Ferrari 456M, Ferrari 612, and Mercedes-Benz CL600.

    My current notes on these cars.

    Maserati QP
    Notes: OK, so this one isn't a 2+2, but who cares. It will surely be the roomiest, and it looks like a good amount of options will be available based on the pictures. I threw it in there because I've always wanted a Maserati and this might be the right time.
    Potential Issues: When is it going to be available? I need it relatively soon. Reliability?

    Ferrari 456M
    Notes: I've always thought the 456 was a very elegant car. I have had the pleasure of being a passenger in two instances in two different cars. I have yet to drive one so the only impressions are those from other people, not my own. I've been told by owners and servicefolk alike that the early cars had problems but that the later (M) models were sorted.
    Potential Issues: 6 speed availability. Are they still available new? If they are, can they still be built to a specific spec? Of a lesser concern, but still an issue, plummeting resale value. I don't think this would be a keeper.

    Ferrari 612
    Notes: Although I think it's a bit of an ugly duckling, I can't see how it shouldn't merit consideration given the drive is supposed to be great. I care MUCH more about how a car drives than how it looks. It's substance that I'm after.
    Potential Issues: Nobody has any experience with these. Is there a wait list? Doubtful, but if there is I don't have the patience for it. I kind of need this car shortly. First model year iteration. I don't like buying the first of a new model year car.

    Mercedes-Benz CL600
    Notes: Easy. Powerful. Reliable. Safe. Comfortable. German. A lot of car for the money. A real bargain.
    Potential Issues: All of my friends who have these cars are not really car guys. The drive is what concerns me on this one. Dealer tells me it's difficult to find a fully loaded one. Every option available sans cell phone.

    Notably absent car. For those who know me you might wonder why no Bentley Continental GT. Well. I don't want to get the first iteration and I already relinquished (not sold) my spot in line (very early allocation) to my dad's friend. Also, my dad will get one so I'll just use his. :) Hehehe

    Cheers
     
  2. noony

    noony F1 Veteran

    Nov 25, 2003
    5,903
    Seoul
    Full Name:
    Johnathan
    #2 noony, Feb 10, 2004
    IMO Maser or E/S55AMG. Those 2+2s won't have all that much room in the back.
     
  3. MondialTCab

    MondialTCab Formula 3

    Sep 5, 2001
    1,020
    Pacific Northwest
    Full Name:
    John Michael Gross
    #3 MondialTCab, Feb 10, 2004
    I am in a similar boat, because my wife needs a full size car since we go out with other couples on a regular basis.

    The 456 is too small in the back, not sure what the 612 will be like as I have yet to see one but the way that the 456 tanked in value leads me to believe I would not want to pick one up.

    I am eagerly awaiting the QP. I was able to take an inside look at Pebble this year and the craftsmanship really shows on this model. Wonderful sounding stereo and reclining rear seats are the kind of comforts my wife covets while I love the autoshifting by default (my wife's daily use) and paddle shifting for me when I would take it for a drive. Rowing through our JGate on the Jag is just not any fun... The downside on residual value is not as great as the above models either...

    - JMG
     
  4. TSMIV

    TSMIV Formula Junior

    Jan 27, 2004
    374
    Columbus, MS
    Full Name:
    Robert Goodman
    #4 TSMIV, Feb 10, 2004
    I really like the QP. It seems to be a good car. Forbes had some concerns that seemed valid.

    http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/2004/02/09/cx_dl_0209feat.html

    456M is a lovely and highly underrated car. I do not think that you can still order one, but I am sure that there is a dealer with one that you would like.

    612 is a cool looking car... in the right color. I saw it is a shade of blue that just knocked my socks off.

    CL600 is a good car, but not a great car. CL55 seems to be more in line with what you are looking for.

    BMW 6 series is supposed to be good. It is not my cup of tea, but some people like it.

    I have heard great things about A8L and Phaeton if you want to go that route.

    It is really depending on what is available. On what I know is available I would go 456M. If available in time QP.
     
  5. Dutchman

    Dutchman F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 4, 2002
    6,184
    EU
    Full Name:
    Ton
    #5 Dutchman, Feb 10, 2004
    Don't buy a 2+2 if you really need the room. Buy a big V12 BMW or Mercedes.

    Ton
     
  6. Furby

    Furby Rookie

    Feb 10, 2004
    48
    Rome, Italy
    #6 Furby, Feb 10, 2004
    You could opt for the new Bmw M5 (or even the old one), it has more than enough power, and handling to match it.

    However, if you definately want one of the cars in the list, I would opt for the Ferrari 456 M. Buy a very well kept 98 and later model, and it should not depreciate a lot (however if Im correct, with the introduction of the 612, the 456 should depreciate even more).

    However the Cl600 has even more room in the back, so it could be a better buy. But still I don't think that the Cl600 and the 456 M can be compared very well...

    The 612 and QP are first years, so they might have some reliability problems...
     

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  7. Klint

    Klint Karting

    Dec 7, 2003
    114
    Isle of Man, British Isles
    Full Name:
    Clint
    #7 Klint, Feb 10, 2004
    S/CL55 or a A8 W12 or maybe the next gen. RS6 :)
     
  8. redhead

    redhead F1 Rookie

    Dec 26, 2001
    4,869
    Full Name:
    ~Red~
    #8 redhead, Feb 10, 2004
    FWIW---
    The CGT's are out in England as we speak. They have a few customer cars with a some miles on them already. This car I do not think will have the issues like the Arnage Gen 1 did, or Azure Gen 1. With the German backing these projects, reliabilty with Gen 1 will be greater then years past.

    Otherwise, then I would say CL if you are worried about long term use and up keep/ care.

    Cheers
     
  9. kizdan

    kizdan F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2003
    5,505
    #9 kizdan, Feb 10, 2004
    I sat in the back of the 612. I am 6'-2", 210lbs, and I have to say that it is pretty decent back there. Would be more than willing to sit back there for a jaunt across town, certainly not across the country though.

    540hp........what else needs to be said???
     
  10. Stickanddice

    Stickanddice Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2002
    2,473
    #10 Stickanddice, Feb 10, 2004
    Rich,

    Now you're really tugging at my hearstrings. I will own one. Just not this year. I don't doubt for a second that the car is well sorted. I'm kind of superstitious like that though. :)

    Thanks all for your feedback. Now what's left is driving them. I should keep my options open to more 4 doors though. If one makes a strong enough impression I'll just take the leap. The Benzs really caught my attention though. They are very solid cars and would feel comfortable with my wife behind the wheel. Hopefully whatever car I pick will give her a pleasant surprise when it's dropped off since she won't be expecting another car.

    TSMIV,

    The CL600 is more of a performer in daily use than the CL55 AMG, which is why I considered it over it's younger brother. That might be different in the track, but that twin turbo V12 has more power than the supercharged V8. People have told me that the power increase is not worth the price, so I may try out the CL55 too.

    Klint,

    I never considered Audi. How do they drive? (OK, no Lamborghini jokes :)) I was hoping to have more of a compact car, which is why I'm looking at the coupes. Rear leg room is obviously going to be superior.

    Cheers
     
  11. zjpj

    zjpj F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,124
    USA
    #11 zjpj, Feb 10, 2004
    How about the CL65 AMG?

    Also, does it need to be performance-oriented? I had the pleasure of riding in the back of a Bentley Continental R and I felt like I was in a sedan. It has a lot of room. Sure, it's a bit of a land boat compared to the performance models we are discussing, but it's really comfortable. Used ones are probably not much more than $100,000
     
  12. bostonmini

    bostonmini Formula 3

    Nov 8, 2003
    1,890
    #12 bostonmini, Feb 10, 2004
    Bentley GT. 4 seats, awd, VW sorted engine, and its really elegant looking. I wouldnt buy a maser or ferrari for everyday driving, I think they tend to break down quite a bit for that, even though consistent driving is good for them, justifying a $200 oil change is tough, and the warranty on the V12s used to be only 2 year, not sure now.
     
  13. Stickanddice

    Stickanddice Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2002
    2,473
    #13 Stickanddice, Feb 10, 2004
    Zjpj,

    I am very familiar with Bentleys. I want a new car. As for the modern Bentleys (2000+) there are already a few in my family. My wife has a Bentley Azure already, but that car is in the east coast. I want something different for her. CL65 AMG? Dealer never even mentioned it. Brochure only shows CL500, 55 AMG, and 600. I asked how long if I wanted to build one from the factory and they said April. That is too long. I found a few CL600s that were fully optioned that piqued my interest though. Two CL55 AMGs too.

    My friend in SF has a Kleeman S class with amazing power, but I'll leave mods like that up to my wife. She's the sporting kind so she may go for something like that. She is already looking for exhaust systems, headers, and such for the 360. She is going to wait until the engine is properly broken in before any such modifications.

    Is the CL65 AMG a factory product or is it a Brabus/RennTech/Kleeman type deal?

    Cheers
     
  14. Stickanddice

    Stickanddice Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2002
    2,473
    #14 Stickanddice, Feb 10, 2004
    Bostonmini,

    I know exactly what you mean. :) Trust me, as I've told Rich in an earlier post, I will own a Continental GT. Just not yet.

    My wife is already driving a 360 as her daily driver (as of very soon, actually). We'll see about reliability although I think you may be correct based on what other owners have told me and based on what has happened to my friends' cars. Warranty is of no concern to me since I already have an "essential man" who makes all my cars drive right. I bring my cars to him irrespective of warranty or geographical constraints (OK, except cars overseas, there I'm kind of screwed). I've been nothing short of completely satisfied with the work he has done in my current, and some past, cars. I believe in doing things right.

    Cheers
     
  15. zjpj

    zjpj F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,124
    USA
    #15 zjpj, Feb 10, 2004
  16. rossofiorano355

    rossofiorano355 Karting

    Dec 22, 2003
    210
    NOLA - Bham
    Full Name:
    Ron
    #16 rossofiorano355, Feb 10, 2004
    My 2002 M5 did everything well, including hauling another couple. You should consider this model as well since you have the 4 door Maser in the mix. The M5 is not in the same league as your other choices with respect to elegance, but is performance more important to you? My “couples car” is a 2004 XJ8 and it does a good job at what I purchased it for…. interior room.
     
  17. zjpj

    zjpj F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    6,124
    USA
    #17 zjpj, Feb 10, 2004
  18. Victory

    Victory Formula Junior

    Jan 28, 2004
    412
    #18 Victory, Feb 10, 2004
    If you had passed over the Bentley CGT then the next choice must surely be the 612 Scaglietti. The Mercedes CLs have been around for a few years alraedy and the 456M is now not in production. So why not get a car that'll be great to drive and will put the Bentley to shame.
     
  19. 98TDFSpider

    98TDFSpider Rookie

    Dec 29, 2003
    22
    #19 98TDFSpider, Feb 10, 2004
    Why not consider the Vanquish -- the best looking 2+2 coupe out there (and the performance can't be too bad either).
     
  20. M.James

    M.James F1 Rookie

    Jun 6, 2003
    2,721
    Worcester, MA
    Full Name:
    Michael.C.James
    #20 M.James, Feb 10, 2004
    Nobody gets excited about riding in the back of a Tank Mercedes....EVERYONE gets excited about riding in the back of a Ferrari - the fact that it has four seats at all is motivation enough for people to squeeze back there, so don't worry if there just isn't cavernous 'room' in the 2+2s....there is, if it means a ride in a Ferrari. Full-grown adults would take rides in the back seat of my Porsche 968, no complaints - and I'd have to say that those seats were make strictly for people under the age of 12....
     
  21. Stickanddice

    Stickanddice Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2002
    2,473
    #21 Stickanddice, Feb 10, 2004
    98TDFSpider,

    My father recently bought a Vanquish. Don't want to have two in the family. The Vanquish is currently in Boston.

    Victory,

    >>...put the Bentley to shame.<<

    Those are fighting words to these ears. :)

    Zjpj,

    I thought you had just ended my decision making process with that post. Available only in Europe. :(

    RossoFiorano355,

    Agree about the M5. My brother in law has one. I do like how the car is kind of a "wolf in sheep's clothing"; very high "stealth" quotient. I wanted something different though. I have many miles behind the wheel of M5s. Fantastic cars, you're very fortunate to have one. I have heard great things about the XJRs but heard that the car is a bit sloppy to drive. Any thoughts on how it compares to the CLs? As of right now I'm leaning more and more towards the CL600, given the CL65 AMG is not available in the U.S.

    Cheers
     
  22. Stickanddice

    Stickanddice Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2002
    2,473
    #22 Stickanddice, Feb 10, 2004
    M.James,

    Thanks for the feedback. I am not too concerned about the "bling bling" factor of the car. I want to judge the car purely on merit. The intangible albeit powerful Ferrari mystique plays a very little role in my decision. I do know what you mean though. I have fond memories of people I've taken on rides squeezing into the back of Porsches or grown adults sitting on each other's laps to get a ride in the Murcielago. :)

    Cheers
     
  23. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 5, 2002
    25,277
    Portland, Oregon
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    Don
    #23 donv, Feb 10, 2004
    A 456 is a magnificent car, and I'm sure you could find a new 456M 6-speed, or at worst a very slightly used one. If depreciation is a concern, I'd go for a 456GT at well under $100k.

    However, if carrying 4 adults is a real priority then I don't think any 2+2 is the way to go. There are plenty of sedans in this price range or lower with tremendous performance, which will also carry 4 people in reasonable comfort.

    Kids are a different story. A 456, and presumably the other cars you mention, work fine for kids, even on long trips.
     
  24. GTB4NART

    GTB4NART Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2004
    421
    #24 GTB4NART, Feb 10, 2004
    I second the notion that if "friends" are around, it's great to "treat" them with a ride in the Ferrari. I think it's incredibly cool when I see a lady driving a Ferrari, let alone with three other women inside. It's probably never happened! You'll NEVER hear a society woman complaining about not enough room in the back seat of anything, trust me on this one.


     
  25. C. Losito

    C. Losito Formula Junior

    Dec 12, 2003
    922
    Metro St. Louis
    Full Name:
    Chris Losito
    #25 C. Losito, Feb 10, 2004
    If you're going Ferrari, get the 456. If not, get the CL. I don't know about the back seats, but I can vouch for the front legroom, of which they have a LOT. Very comfortable too. Personally, I think it's one of the best looking coupes in the world, but then again I'm a sucker for pillarless hardtops.

    As for the engine, I'd get the V12. I'm going to take a stab in the dark guess and say that the AMG version, while probably slightly faster, will cause the ride quality to suffer greatly. Of course, ignore that if you intend to toss it around like a sports car.
     
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