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What are the factory updates for the 512 TR?

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by silvergts1998, Dec 3, 2007.

  1. silvergts1998

    silvergts1998 Formula 3

    Apr 10, 2005
    2,397
    ky
    Full Name:
    Adam
    I saw this ebay add and wasn't sure how accurate it was.

    This car has had three major engine-out services, the most recent performed by an authorized dealer at 34,600 miles in August 2006. All major factory updates and upgrades have been completed, including the very important transmission update with beefier shafts and synchros (be sure that the 512 you buy has this! It will need it to address one of the car's only design weaknesses, and it's a $10,000 job). Other updates include the Euro ECUs (better hot starting), the one-piece brake fluid reservoir, and the fuel line and shoulder belt recalls.

    Linke to the car.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferrari-512-TR-1993-Ferrari-512-TR-512TR-One-Owner-Concours-Champ_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6212QQihZ017QQitemZ270193116600QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW


    Is this guy correct or is he just saying stuff to make his car sell? Just curious how much truth to what he is saying.
     
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  3. J. Salmon

    J. Salmon F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Aug 27, 2005
    4,309
    VA
    I have a hard time believing there was a "factory update" to the transaxle that included "synchros and shafts." It's the case that is the weak link, and at no time in history has Ferrari replaced unbroken tranny components. I think there is a lot of bs in this.
     
  4. 348SStb

    348SStb F1 Rookie
    Owner

    The update to the transmission has been mentioned several times recently in the TR section.

    Does anyone have a book indicating the service campaigns and production improvements for the 512 TR?

    I have such a book for the 348...
     
  5. rjnavion

    rjnavion Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    128
    Gate, OK (western O
    Full Name:
    Ron Judy
    I think I have most of the factory Service Bulletins of updates during the 512TR production run from 1992 through 1994. The beefier input shaft is easy to put in and doesn't require tearing the tranny down or even removing the engine. The very important one is the forged differential housing to replace the welded one. The guy doesn't mention this in the eBay ad. I think this can be done with the engine in the car but requires expert knowledge how to set it up, which I don't have. The synchro changes plus some changes to large nuts on the internal shafts aren't that important and normally aren't done unless the transmission is completely disassembled for rebuild. The update to the throwout bearing and clutch slave cylinder normally aren't done unless one or the other goes out. I've done this and it's pretty easy.

    The differential change was made with gearbox serial number 1513 stamped in the back of the case.

    Ron
     
  6. 348SStb

    348SStb F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Do you have dates (month, year) for these changes in production?

    If so, please post each bulletin/production improvement with its corresponding date. It will be very helpful to all.
     
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  8. bob348

    bob348 Formula 3

    Apr 13, 2004
    1,547
    Liege, Belgium
    Full Name:
    Geoffrey
    Gear box 1513 and higher ... i'll check my number...
     
  9. American Pie

    American Pie Karting

    Nov 3, 2007
    83
    Camarillo, CA
    Full Name:
    Larry
    Were all the other updates done at the same time Ferrari switched to the forged differential housing? That is, if your car has the forged housing can you also assume your tranny has the better synchros and strengthened input shaft, and that you have the updates to the throwout bearing, clutch slave cylinder, etc.?
     
  10. silvergts1998

    silvergts1998 Formula 3

    Apr 10, 2005
    2,397
    ky
    Full Name:
    Adam
    Just curious,

    what is involved in changing out syncrous? Is there lashing involved? Or is it a direct replacement? Don't know alot about traanys.
     
  11. rjnavion

    rjnavion Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    128
    Gate, OK (western O
    Full Name:
    Ron Judy
    I'll go through the Service Bulletins and try to correlate them to a transmission or engine number. Nothing cross-references to a VIN number. I may not have them all, but these are as provided to me by a Ferrari technician. Another source is the 1994 512TR parts book. It will give every change up to the date of the book publication. An earlier parts book will not show every change.

    PLEASE MAKE A COPY OF THIS AND GET IN YOUR RECORDS FOR FUTURE REFERENCE

    1. SB 30-16, 06/01/92; applies to 512TR and F-40
    Casehardened ring nut starting with 512TR Gearbox no. 385
    a. Lay & Trans shaft ring nut, replace 100729 with 150918
    b. Clutch shaft ring nut, replace 125500 with 150304
    c. Main shaft rear ring nut, replace 105764 with 150920
    d. Main shaft front ring nut, replace 104713 with 150921

    2. SB 30-17A, 03/07/94; applies to 512TR, 348, & Mondial
    Ring nuts for gearbox shafts for 512TR starting with assembly number 10970 (this is a different number than the gearbox number & is found on a plate between the right fuel filter & the rubber air induction hose.
    a. Ring nut fixing driven gear on front of secondary shaft replace 150918 with 153068 & increase torque from 220 Nm to 280 Nm
    b. Ring nut for clutch shaft replace 150304 with 153066 & increase torque from 160 Nm to 220 Nm (Note: This is another change from SB30-16)
    c. Ring nut on rear of primary shaft replace 150920 with 153067 & increase torque from 220 Nm to 280Nm
    d. Ring nut on front of primary shaft replace 150921 with 153060 and increase torque from 220 Nm to 280 Nm (Note: Another change from SB30-16)
    e. Ring nut on front of primary shaft replace 151834 with 153060 and increase torque from 220 Nm to 280 Nm

    3. SB 30-18, 12/20/93 applies to 512TR (shaft can also be used in 512BB & Testarossa)
    Propeller shaft from transfer gearbox back of clutch to main transmission. New heavier shaft starting with engine number 31108. Replace 151653 (17mm dia.) with 151651 (20mm dia.)

    4. SB 30-20, 03/07/94; 512TR starting with gearbox number 1749
    Introduction of an oil feed line between gearbox case & clutch bell housing to improve lubrication of the transfer gears. I won't list all part numbers unless someone specifically wants them as it involves a new bell housing and new gear box case plus other smaller parts (very, very expensive & probably not worth it)

    5. SB 30-21, 03/07/94; 512TR starting with gearbox number 1086
    A new spring for 2nd & 3rd gear synchronizers. Replace 3 springs, 148248 with 154424

    6. SB 30-22, 03/07/94; 512TR starting with gearbox number 1797
    A new shaft for the reverse idler gear that has new lubrication channels; replace 150887 with 155475
    WHY ARE THESE TWO SB's DATED THE SAME WITH VASTLY DIFFERENT GEARBOX NUMBERS?? DUNNO

    7. SB 30-23, 7/1/94; 512TR This is the differential change & is very confusing. I gave a wrong gearbox number earlier on part of the SB, so study it carefully. Sorry about this.
    a. From gearbox number 1370 replace welded differential 146769 with forged unit 155099
    b. From gearbox number 1513 new ring gear with different bolts and locating dows to align with the differential assembly. Replace ring & pinion 110016 with 159069
    c. From gearbox number 1513 replace 12 bolts M10X1.25 #103875 with 12 bolts #153710 M10X1 thread
    d. From gearbox number 1513 add 2 centering dowels 13916370
    e. Updated bolts for gearboxes 1512 and prior: Replace 12 bolts 103875 M10X1.25 with 12 bolts 155750 M10X1.25. These are stronger bolts and can be used on all ring gear to differential mating where the old ring gear with M10X1.25 threads is retained. If the forged differential is installed it should be with these new stronger bolts.

    So any 512 with gearbox number 1370 or later will have the forged differential housing. All after gearbox number 1513 will have the forged housing plus the later ring and pinion gear with locating dowels & heavier bolts.

    There is really no reference to VIN number or exact date production changes were made. As a reference, my VIN is 92223, gearbox 314, engine 29896, and assembly number 09529.

    I have another one on the throwout bearing and clutch slave cylinder. When I find it, I'll post it. Don't want to lose all of the above while searching for it.

    Ron
     
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  13. 348SStb

    348SStb F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Wow Ron this is great, thanks...
     
  14. 348SStb

    348SStb F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Hey Ron,

    I am a little confused.

    For example, you list a bulletin with a date of, say, March 1994; but then indicated is that the fix applies "after" gearbox number --x--. What does this mean? Does that mean the fix only applies to "later" gearboxes? Don't get it.

    Well, my 512 TR was produced January, 1994 and I am wondering which updates apply to me. It seems to be a puzzle.
     
  15. rjnavion

    rjnavion Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    128
    Gate, OK (western O
    Full Name:
    Ron Judy
    I can't find the Service Bulletin in my vast 512TR mess of papers, but here's the data from the parts book.
    Starting with engine number 33999 the slave cylinder went from two seals to six seals. Cost when I replaced these four years ago was about $1200. There are various other little parts required besides the throwout bearing and slave cylinder assembly. You'll need the parts book to figure it all out.

    Ron
     
  16. rjnavion

    rjnavion Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    128
    Gate, OK (western O
    Full Name:
    Ron Judy
     
  17. 348SStb

    348SStb F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Hey thanks. Won't be able to look for a few weeks.

    Incidentally, my serial # 98741 is the very LAST 512 TR ever sent to the United States. So if I don't have the updates, no one does!
     
  18. American Pie

    American Pie Karting

    Nov 3, 2007
    83
    Camarillo, CA
    Full Name:
    Larry
    Excellent, Ron. Thanks for looking all this up. So it looks like only the very late 1994 models are likely to have most or all of the updates, but that the gearbox serial number is the key.

    For potential buyers doing a PPI, is this number on the back casting of the transmission easily accessed without getting the car on a lift?
     
  19. bob348

    bob348 Formula 3

    Apr 13, 2004
    1,547
    Liege, Belgium
    Full Name:
    Geoffrey
    My Vin is #96432, and my TR is a 93 with ABS...i will try to check the gearbox number...
     
  20. rjnavion

    rjnavion Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    128
    Gate, OK (western O
    Full Name:
    Ron Judy
    For potential buyers doing a PPI, is this number on the back casting of the transmission easily accessed without getting the car on a lift?[/QUOTE]

    I think you can see it top-side with a mirror and light. It's been over four years and I've forgotten a little since then. If not visible, back the car onto some ramps and you can look from underneath.
    Ron
     
  21. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant Owner

    Dec 29, 2006
    17,751
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    Typically synchros are a "simple" replacement item.

    It however requires a complete disassembly of the gearbox to get to them (far from simple). Like so many other jobs "while we're in here" comes into play and frequently results in a lot of other expensive parts being replaced as well (bearings, locknuts, perhaps forks etc.).

    There is some "setup" involved (depends on the gearbox) but it's usually no more involved than engine work.

    Making sure all the (seems like millions) little parts go back where they belong can be tricky. I recommend that lots of photos be taken during disassembly.

    The drawings in the parts book never quite look like the thing you're holding (now does it go on this way or that way?).
     
  22. silvergts1998

    silvergts1998 Formula 3

    Apr 10, 2005
    2,397
    ky
    Full Name:
    Adam
    Thanks 2NA!

    Do you need any kind of special tools or will just common shop tools do the job? Do you think pretty much any reputible tranny shop could do this work of replacing gears and such? So I take it's not like setting up a pinion and crown gear where you have to lash it and do all that stuff? Direct replacement parts sound easy...but then that is always relative.
     
  23. 348SStb

    348SStb F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Pardon me for not being able to grasp exactly what the story is with these "updates" but...

    Can I safely suppose that these improvements, which have been described as "service bulletins," were incorporated into production? I know it seems like a really dumb question, and I think the answer is yes, but I would like to confirm...

    I would like to confirm because usually such items are described as "production improvements." And, of course, "production improvements" can usually be retroactively fitted.

    What, then, exactly is a "Service Bulletin?" Is it the same as a "Service campaign?" And was/is there a charge for them, or for some and not others?
     
  24. rjnavion

    rjnavion Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    128
    Gate, OK (western O
    Full Name:
    Ron Judy


    The wording "Service Bulletin" was by Ferrari, not me. It is printed as such on each and every such sheet I have. As far as the ones I have on the 512TR they were issued during the production run of 1992 through 1994 and are "production improvements" that can be retroactively fitted to earlier cars but at the car owners expense. They were all incorporated into subsequent production models. Owning a 1994 issue of the parts book will show all of these and what serial number the changes were incorporated.

    All "Service Campaigns" I've seen on American cars usually appear after production of that year or model of car had ended and a requirement the update be complied with because of a safety issue and/or a government requirement. Usually the manufacturer absorbs the cost of the update rather than the owner. The TR shoulder harness update was a good example. There was another one on a fuel hose on the 512TR but I can't lay my hands on it right now.

    Ron
     
  25. 348SStb

    348SStb F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Hi Ron,

    I didn't mean to suggest that you made up the words; indeed, I have the same such book as you have for the 348/Mondial t, and it contains the words "Service Bulletins" as well. It is a book that I bought off Ebay containing each and every update issued by Ferrari during production.

    By the way, how did you come to acquire your sheets?

    I was just looking for some insight as to how to properly interpret the words, and you have provided it. Thank you.

    Yes, the 512 TR had two recalls: seat belts were one; fuel lines and hoses were another.
     
  26. rjnavion

    rjnavion Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    128
    Gate, OK (western O
    Full Name:
    Ron Judy
    I got the sheets from a Ferrari technician that used to be on this forum. From what I read and heard from others he was the best. I was getting ready to do my engine pull and interested in updating the differential and he FAXed me the SB's that he had and said he'd advise on which ones were important and which weren't. At some point he became irritated by people on the forum arguing with him or making statements about maintenance that absolutely weren't true and he got off and I understand won't be back. It's a great loss as he was a dependable source of tech information.

    I got the SB sheets on the slave cylinder/throwout bearing update from a person in England that posted them on an earlier thread I had started. Going back and looking at this thread, the messages are there but the attachment is gone; I'm assuming that one of the server crashes lost it. I can't find my copy but have it somewhere.

    The two SB's done to my 512TR were the slave cylinder and some earlier owner installed the later input shaft from the rear gearbox to transmission. I'd really like to have the differential mod but couldn't find the factory one when the engine was out and really didn't look any farther as I had doubts that I could set it up correctly. So I drive carefully.

    I had the shoulder harness recall done in Dallas and am unclear whether the fuel hose recall has been done as I have hardly any paperwork on what it was.

    If someone is serious about doing some of these upgrades I'll be glad to FAX them the sheets.

    Ron
     
  27. silvergts1998

    silvergts1998 Formula 3

    Apr 10, 2005
    2,397
    ky
    Full Name:
    Adam

    I would be interested. PM sent

    Thanks!
     
  28. 94 512TR

    94 512TR Rookie

    Jan 10, 2006
    41
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    John Glover
    Great information. I checked mine.

    VIN: ...97003
    Gear box: 1740
    Assembly: 13939
    Engine: 34301

    Looks like I have most of the good stuff.
     

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