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What happened to the suppposed 25 versions of the 512S produced ?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Kds, Jan 16, 2007.

  1. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Sorry to say but - although you didn't include a photo - this is not the new showroom, this is actually the OLD showroom. The new showroom is located along the main street at Hardstrasse 15 in Basel.

    Here's a photo showing 1018 in the old showroom at official dealership Niki Hasler AG in Basel, Switzerland.
    I took this photo Friday, 27th April 2018.

    Marcel Massini

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  2. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    1042 at Monaco GP Historique
     
  3. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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  4. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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  5. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    1042 is amazing.
     
  6. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    What is going on with #1006?
    History removed from barchetta.cc

    Owned by HL

    Case 1006 / 1028
    1028 has been certified by Ferrari
     
  7. fazzaz 512

    fazzaz 512 Rookie

    Feb 16, 2004
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    If not mistaken there is apparently some research happening on the race histories of N°1006 and N°1028. It is not all that difficult, but past reports have clouded certain issues. BTW both cars N°1006 and N°1028 are Ferrari Classiche Certified confirming the originality of the chassis, engine, gearbox and major components. Naturally not the racing histories.
     
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  8. Patrick Faucompre

    Mar 3, 2005
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    # 1044 has been Classiche certified last year.
    Do-we know who is the new owner?
    thanks,
    Patrick
     
  9. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    What is the market value of a 512? $5m? $10m?
     
  10. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
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    The best are nearly $20 million, any genuine car is $10 minimum, provenance and race history is a pro rata value between those two limits. Some have asked even more for theirs but that's the current value spectrum for them.
     
  11. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Really? More than a 250lm? Wow.
     
  12. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    There is quite a difference between an asking price and what you actually get at the end of the day.
    And a proper 250 LM for sure is worth more than a 512 S/M.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  13. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
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    Any legitimate 250LM with a proven original chassis would be $15 million, a great original, competition car would be around $20 - 25 million (#5907 maybe), even one of the two Stradales might push these numbers. That said there are very few 250LMs that are totally original, even fewer that have great racing histories so they are unicorns. Maybe one or two cars total. Now your comparable 512S/M is approx 5 - 10 million below the 250LM level with a similar number of truly great, no stories examples and few with superb race histories AND great provenance. It was always a given that a 512S/M is half the price of the equivalent Porsche 917 and great Gulf 917s are about $25 - 30 million and while the gap has narrowed, this still equated to $12 - 15 million so figure perhaps $15 - 18 million on a good day. Hell most cars of any type typically either have total originality OR great race history and cars that combine both really are needles in haystacks or unicorns.
     
  14. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    There is a 512S currently for sale which is advertised in FML inviting bids in excess of $20 million.
     
  15. Nembo1777

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    Hello Steve, I might be blind but I just looked online at the three past issues, current included and could not see the ad, can you clarify? Thanks.
     
  16. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Longtime owner John Giordano advertised his 512 S in FML twice, full page ad, on 17 and 31 August 2019, Volume 44 #17 and #18.

    Marcel Massini

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  17. Nembo1777

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    Thanks Marcel, I thought it would be John G.'s car that of my very first article back in 1992. Had a nice phone chat with him this summer but did not realize he had advertised it.
     
  18. tedzwedz

    tedzwedz Rookie

    May 15, 2004
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    https://www.girardo.com/available/1970-ferrari-512-s/

    One was sold by this London dealer not so long ago.

    Entered the 1970 Daytona 24 Hours & 1000 KM di Monza by Scuderia Ferrari
    Originally owned and raced by the Scuderia Ferrari
    Ferrari Classiche Certified
    Used during filming of Steve McQueen's movie, 'Le Mans'
    Fully maintained and race-prepared regardless of cost by specialist Tim Samways



    SOLD | 1970 Ferrari 512 S
    Chassis no. 1004
    Engine no. 26
    Gearbox no. 12
    Put together in just three months by a team headed by Mauro Forghieri, the 512 S mounted an all-alloy V12 of almost five litres with four valves per cylinder. The tubular spaceframe was developed from the P4 and the 612, while the bodywork was designed by Giacomo Caliri and made from polycarbonate for light weight.

    The car offered here, chassis 1004, was completed in late 1969 in preparation of the 1970 World Endurance Championship. The car featured external door hinges, a roof vent and larger diameter anti-roll bar. Chassis 1004 was immediately destined for competition and entered the 1970 Daytona 24 Hours, which was also the debut for the Ferrari 512 S model.


    1970 Daytona 24 Hours

    Date: 31st January – 1st February 1970

    Drivers: Jacky Ickx & Peter Schetty

    Race number: 27

    Qualifying: 5th

    Race: Retired

    The Ferrari works team arrived in Daytona with three recently homologated 512 S’. The 5-litre 60-degree V12 engines developed 550 bhp at 8,500 rpm with a 5-speed gearbox transferring the power to the road via 15 inch wheels.

    Practice was held on the Wednesday and Thursday prior to the race and was untimed, however from the pit lane stopwatches the Ferraris were faster than the Porsche! Qualifying was held on Friday morning and started in the wet. Despite a whole pack of these fearsome endurance cars qualifying, the track did not entirely dry out. Ickx was qualifying 1004 and set the fifth fastest time of 1 min 56.9 seconds (117.331 mph).

    Race day on Saturday was cool and dry, conditions which would remain consistent throughout the entire 24 hours of competition. The entire grid lined up by 2pm and started their pace laps before the flag dropped at 3pm on the back straight.

    The race was progressing well until chassis 1004 suffered a tyre failure on the banking. The cause of the tyre failure was due to excessive wear on its inner edge, a problem which plagued engineer Forghieri throughout the 24 hours. It was eventually discovered that the excessive wear was due to the increased toe-in on the banking which was caused by the suspension mounting points cracking, allowing enough movement to create an issue. This was an issue which hobbled Ferrari at Daytona in 1970. After the tyre failure, 1004 was retired and returned to Maranello.


    1970 1000 KM di Monza

    Date: 25th April 1970

    Drivers: John Surtees & Peter Schetty

    Race number: 2

    Qualifying: 6th

    Race: 3rd

    The 1970 1000 KM di Monza was held on Liberation Day and was to be run on the Grand Prix circuit. Practice and qualifying had presented some sensational times with the fastest being only one hundredth of a second slower than the Grand Prix lap record. John Surtees was making a welcomed return to Ferrari and was paired with Peter Schetty in 1004. The pair qualified well and lined up sixth on the grid for Sundays 174-lap endurance race.

    Once everyone had got away from the start and completed lap one the crowds erupted with a Ferrari crossing the line first! The race pace was intense and by the end of lap 35 Surtees was leading in 1004, however he soon needed to pit for fuel and hand the car over to Peter Schetty who returned to the track in fourth. At the next round of pit stops the Ferrari mechanics earnt their money with all three works cars in the pits at the same time. As the race progressed further Surtees and Schetty climbed the order to cross the line in a strong third place.


    Post Factory Competition

    After the podium finish at Monza, the car was used by the Scuderia for testing at both Monza and Modena Autodromo. Interestingly, this was also the car which Ferrari used to test the high-speed tail on the Italian Autostrada. Ferrari had a local Autostrada closed and completed several high-speed tests with the newly designed tail section. The car was then sold to Jacques Swaters of Garage Francorchamps in Brussels on the 20th June 1970. At the point of sale, the car was renumbered by Ferrari from 1004 to 1024. As can be seen on Ferrari invoice number 16655 the car was sold as a chassis and body having had the engine and gearbox removed.

    Only one month later this car was sold to Solar Productions which was owned by Steve McQueen. The car was purchased to be used during filming of the famous Le Mans movie. The front and rear body sections from this car were fitted to a Lola T70 to create a look-a-like 512 S which could be used for the well-known crash scene in the movie.

    After filming in December 1970, Herbert Muller Racing in Switzerland purchased all 512s, except one, used during the filming of Le Mans. Of the four cars purchased, two were immediately sold to clients of Herbert Muller Racing, with two (the car offered here, and chassis 1036) remaining within their ownership.

    On the 22nd June 1979, the car was purchased from an Italian in Torino by famed Ferrari 512 historian, Manfred Lampe. The Italian owner had renumbered 1004 again, this time to be 1012. At this point, Manfred Lampe recalls that the chassis was complete and the sale included some body panels, four wheels and various other smaller components.

    Lampe sent this car to the USA later in 1979 before it returned to Europe in the late 1980’s. The car was then sent to Ferrari restoration and servicing specialist, Bob Houghton, in the UK. A full rebuild was started in 1991 with the assistance and support of the Ferrari factory. Lampe purchased various 512 S spares for this car at the Albert Obrist Christies auction at Goodwood in June 1996. The car was next seen by the public at Concours Automobiles, Bagatelle, Paris in September 1999 before the restoration was completed by Bob Houghton in August 1999.

    Since its completion, the car has competed at various historic motoring events around the world, but most importantly in November 2002, after much research in their archives, Ferrari confirmed that the car sold on 22nd June 1970 to Ecurie Francorchamps as chassis no. 1024, was originally 1004.



    On 22nd November 2011, the car was awarded its Ferrari Classiche Certificate of Authenticity, confirming the car as chassis no. 1004, engine no. 26 and gearbox no. 12. As a result of the car being restored by Bob Houghton to Spider specification with the involvement of the Ferrari factory throughout the restoration, the spider body was accepted for certification.
     
  19. fiatosca

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    Curious who is credited with designing the body of the 512S?
     
  20. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    Giacomo Caliri is credited with designing the bodywork in the team headed by Mauro Forghieri.
     
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  21. Nembo1777

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    #396 Nembo1777, Dec 20, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2019
    I stumbled upon this on Youtube yesterday an Italian movie someone just uploaded this month. It is with French actor Maurice Ronet (who was with Alain Delon in la piscine (the swimming pool) and the famous Maserati Ghibli scene) and Virna Lisi, a bit past her prime but still stunning, she is the one Brigitte Bardot considered the most beautiful one in the world a decade before, quite an endorsement:). The movie itself is despite them not worth watching and the poster shows F1 cars when endurance racers are featured Duh...

    It features at the start and then after 19 minutes and 40 seconds the 1971 1000kms of Monthlery on 17th October 1971 with three 512M's the 1024 of Scuderia Brescia Corse which I drove in 2015 on that unforgettable 1st october 2015 day for my Classic & Sportscar article, the yellow Escuderia Montjuich (1002 I believe) and the Gelo team car #_____of Georg Loos.



    Here is an excellent page with all details on that race.

    https://www.racingsportscars.com/results/Montlhery-1971-10-17.html

    Notice the very poor condition of the cars, for many of the 5 liter cars it was their very last pro race before retirement and 2nd league/historic races.
    Typically all 3 512's retired and the evil 917 Stuttgart piglets won, curses be upon them;-)
    As a consolation the Pozzi Daytona Group 4 of top drivers Andruet and Ballot Lena came third overall though, amidst lots of accidents (Gelo 512 on oil included).

    The layout used at Monthlery is with the full road course, the dip where they jump is the cuvette de Couard, that road section has not been used for races in decades, instead in recent years after a few hundred meters straight they use a hairpin to turn back and just two more curves and barely a kilometer until they return to the banking back straight. I snuck in and walked it in the 80's most impressive. At the far end it is next to a military base, what a contrast of activities...Note also that the chicanes at the bottom of the banking are brand new, they were made not to lower speeds but more to alleviate strain on the banking itself. At one point (I can't recall what year) a parade with many hundreds of vehicles really had an impact on the structure (which is pillars like the Monza banking not dirt like US ovals) so they decided to play safe.

    Late in the movie Ronet uses an Espada, he owned at least one himself.
     
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  22. Jimincov

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    Image Unavailable, Please Login Heres a sadly low resolution pic I found on Pinterest of what I am I guessing is the 512M conversion process taking place - I wander if any members have a better quality version?
     
  23. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    #1010, taken in November 1970.

    Marcel Massini
     
  24. The Strad

    The Strad Formula 3
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    Thanks for sharing this beautiful movie! Very European, very 70's, gorgeous!
     
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  25. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 Veteran

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    You are welcome, lots of great 50's to 70's movies on Youtube, Dailymotion and other such sources, I don't have any Netflix account or any such thing, it is fun to dig them up and they are much better than today's Hollywood garbage:)
     
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