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What happened to the suppposed 25 versions of the 512S produced ?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Kds, Jan 16, 2007.

  1. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    So you are Mr Giordano or you are posting on his behalf.
    In that case you certainly remember that rather unfriendly letter sent to Mr. Piero Ferrari and Mr. Luca di Montezemolo dated 17th July 2012.
    And the factory response dated 29th August 2012.
    They even offered to have the Giordano car certified as 1046. This was declined.

    Oh well.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  2. p gio

    p gio Karting

    Jan 30, 2020
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    Marcel-
    As I stated earlier, you are just attacking me, and this is not the behavior that is exhibited by someone who legitimately has no skin in the game.
    And I wouldnt bring John into this. I am NOT him. Have said that a million times here.
    Furthermore, I am NOT working for him and I think that he would be appalled to learn that you are making such accusations. When I have spoken with him, he has only had pleasantries to share about you and your research.
    It would be a shame for him and others to think you are not conducting yourself in a professional manner.
     
  3. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3
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    Not to be glib, but if thats your argument, where is your dress?
     
  4. p gio

    p gio Karting

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    Working on it....
     
  5. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    So, next time when you talk to John, I suggest you ask why he refused to have his car certified……….

    Marcel Massini
     
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  6. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #482 miurasv, Feb 13, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
    Just out of interest, was the car physically inspected and certified at Maranello or a Classiche Authorised Centre?

    Also has it been re-certified since the introduction of the annual re-inspections by Classiche?
     
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  7. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Factory.
    Not just by a Classiche authorised centre.

    It was certified 22 November 2011. At that time the "annual re-inspection" had not been introduced yet.
    The number of the Certificate is 1473 F.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  8. p gio

    p gio Karting

    Jan 30, 2020
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    Mr Massini-
    When I interviewed him several months ago, he explained his side of this story.
    We did cover the topic and he explained his feelings about it.
    However, he is just one component in this story.
    I dont think it was very fair for you to make such allegations as you did above about John. He is not involved in this chat or forum at all.
    At this point, you have made your point and seem to be extremely flustered regarding a situation that you continue to insert yourself in.
     
  9. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    No allegations at all.
    Again, I do have all the paperwork, letters and correspondence and am able to read.
    When are you starting to provide evidence?

    Marcel Massini
     
  10. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Here's the invoice from Solar Productions (the Steve McQueen Le Mans movie company) to Herbert Müller in Reinach, Switzerland, dated 10 December 1970, for three Ferrari 512 S, spares and bodywork. Total amount US$ 30'000. Included was chassis #1046. The three cars and pieces were officially imported to Switzerland on the 13th April 1971 and customs/duty and taxes paid at the Aarau customs office.

    Marcel Massini

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  11. p gio

    p gio Karting

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    Peter Giorgio


    All in due time.
     
  12. p gio

    p gio Karting

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    Peter Giorgio

    You know what?
    I have been keeping things very cordial between you and I, but since you have made this your mission this afternoon, let me ask you point blank-

    Do you truly believe Manfred Lampe’s car is a 100% authentic Ferrari 512s?
     
  13. BIRA

    BIRA Formula Junior

    Jun 15, 2007
    888
    If you have said something on this site a million times,,, since you joined in January 30th, 2020 you might be prone to exaggeration...

    And I disagree with you, I would rather hear Mr Giordano’s views even if he is conflicted and biased as an owner than missing key information.

    And if he has had an exchange or exchanges in the past with Ferrari regarding why he thinks which car is which , this would be part of the “discovery” as they call it.

    If he does not want this information to be shown or you don’t want it, apparently without even asking, then people will take their own conclusion.
     
  14. AtSomePoint

    AtSomePoint Rookie

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    Mr. Giorgio, all what in due time? Why wait if you have something so pertinent to confirm/deny that which you have been so tirelessly posting?

    Further, I must admit, I found your first few posts interesting in a sense that it seemed you might have something to put the mystery to bed or at least add a bit of clarity at a minimum. However, I now feel as though I'm listening to a rookie political candidate ramble on about nothing.

    Finally, please make your next post substantial. IOW, break out the dress.
     
  15. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

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    Marcel Massini's contribution to discussions in this forum is always welcome as he is a proven expert on the matter of vintage Ferrari racing and road cars. Perhaps THE proven expert. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but to me his frustration seems not to stem from having "skin in the game", instead it comes with having to repeatedly correct baseless allegations in order to try to keep the discussion of 512 Ferrari chassis as fact and evidence based as possible. Recently that has included having to reply to messages like yours which, as has frustratingly been pointed out before by more than one member of this discussion including MM, are conspicuous in their lack of evidence.

    Where is the dress?
     
  16. GIOTTO

    GIOTTO F1 Rookie
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    Two photos from the Herbert Müller public Facebook page - (© Daniel Müller & Rony Altermatt - Admins).
    512S in the middle should be #1046.

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  17. p gio

    p gio Karting

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    Im sorry but I dont agree with you that my statements have been baseless. I would also consider thinking that there are underlying truths and that is why it has made some people upset in this chat.

    I do agree that Mr Massini is a wealth of information and is genuinely interested in the historical factual histories of these cars. No disputing that.

    The information that Mr Massini has most recently posted about #1004, the bill of sale from 1970 and the older information about that chassis is absolutely correct. That is accurate Ferrari history regarding that car.

    However, that historical information does not address my assertion that I believe the wrong car was certified #1004.

    In the end, and as I have shared, I am building a story, gathering evidence, and am sharing what I know thus far. I cannot pull my Ace just yet, well because everything needs to be 100% before you do that. Plus, I dont know if I would pull it on a public chat forum such as this.

    Readers here can assume whatever they want. My entire motivation here was to create a buzz regarding this particular story as it is very very interesting.

    And, as you said, and I also agree that Mr Massini is one of the most well known historians in this arena, I would like to see if he answers my question if he 100% believes Manfred Lampe’s car is 100% authentic and genuine Ferrari 512s.
     
  18. p gio

    p gio Karting

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    Was Manfred Lampe involved, consulted, or referred to regarding the Certification regarding this particular case?
     
  19. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Mr. Lampe was the owner at the time.
    You may want to ask your friends at the factory, if you have any.
    Or Mr. Lampe.
    You aren't at war with him, are you?
    Preparing a vendetta?
    Good luck.

    Oh, btw, what happened to the dress?

    Marcel Massini
     
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  20. p gio

    p gio Karting

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    Already answered your question about Manfred (#463).

    Vendetta? No. Thats personal and this isnt personal. Its just a story.

    I will ask you this question for the 3rd time- do you 100% believe that Manfred Lampe's car was a 100% authentic and genuine Ferrari 512s?
     
  21. The Strad

    The Strad Formula 3
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    Being completely impartial in this discussion, I wonder (but hope) that everyone involved in it checked all the posts of Fchat member fazzaz 512.....
    Having followed this thread since months and read the whole thing from the beginning, the least thing one can say is that Ferrari's past with chassis nrs is extremely confusing. I believe we all should have confidence in the experience and claims of historians who dedicate their time and energy in bringing the history of important racing cars to the surface.
    Maybe the posting of a few historical pictures of the noted "1004" (or should I say "1024") will help us remember the beauty of it in its original racing environment.
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    [​IMG]
     
  22. 375+

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    Fantastic photographs, thank you for posting them.
     
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  23. GIOTTO

    GIOTTO F1 Rookie
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    Not only Ferrari... Same with Porsche, Maserati, Jaguar, etc... The history is clear for many cars. But for some, it's a nightmare.
     
  24. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Veteran
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    That last photo is gorgeous, thrilling, and pretty much culminates my joy of the brand. The war marks on the nose are fantastic.
     

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