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What is the biggest problem Ferrari needs to overcome?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Ferruccio, Dec 16, 2003.

?

What is the biggest problem Ferrari needs to overcome?

  1. Needs better Reliability

  2. Needs More HP

  3. Needs to build them useing less technology and more handbuilt craftsmen techniques (focus on there a

  4. Needs to be less expensive

  5. Needs more exotic styling

  6. Needs to stop selling them to posers (Tommy)

  7. Needs to sell a SUV (vote for this one and your a poser lol)

  8. Other PLEASE SPECIFY IN POST

Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Mark(study)

    Mark(study) F1 Veteran
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    Oct 13, 2001
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    Ferrari can't raise its prices. Why have they always sold under market value? There must be a reason???

    Because Ferrari knows they get ripped in the Auto press for making a car that cost 15 times what the vette cost and has the same preformance.

    Right now, at 6 vettes for the price of a 275M, Ferrari gets away with it.... but at a certain point... even the Ferrari loyal start to feel silly. That's why the Enzo went for 660 instead of the 1,000,000 ferrari could have gotten. Even ferrari is worried about bang for buck equations.
     
  2. ty (360mode)

    ty (360mode) Formula Junior

    Sep 25, 2002
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    Tim
    i would prefer if they could just lower production (as i don't think there should be new "leftover" '02 model 12 cylinders still sitting on the showroom, just doesn't seem right!), but i doubt they could lower production w/o raising prices so that is why i included both.
     
  3. Clax

    Clax Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2002
    1,611
    I would never support an entry-level model. And Ferrari wouldn't, either. Let those people buy Porsche Boxsters, Vettes, Supras, Vipers, etc. In a time when companies (like Porsche) are watering down their marque, Ferrari needs to hold to 4 or 5 models of exclusive vehicles that offer a distinct experience. Ferrari should be something that a car enthusiast works towards. If they are easily obtainable, the overall presitge of the brand will falter. At the risk of sounding pompous, I can honestly say that the addition of an entry-level to Ferrari would significantly lessen my interest in Ferrari. Do you think Rolex should make a $200 watch?
     
  4. LouB

    LouB Formula 3

    Apr 15, 2001
    1,811
    FL, OR
    For the V8 models they need at least 500 shp at the same or less weight to meet or beat the competition. Styling is fine with modest update.

    For the V12 models more shp would be OK but most importantly they need more exotic styling thats screams FERRARI from 100 ft rather than "what is that, a Japanese car?"

    The Enzo or halo class is fine as is but could use at least a weekend worth or luggage space. Not being able to take your $1m car on a weekend trip through the New England countryside with your honey is crazy and for me unacceptable. It's a very very rapid "day sailer"
     
  5. Willis360

    Willis360 F1 Rookie

    Aug 4, 2001
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    That's why the Enzo owner should leave it at home and drive the MacLaren F1 for the weekend trip. :)
     
  6. Ferruccio

    Ferruccio Formula Junior

    Feb 2, 2003
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    Ferraris need to be looked like more as art. As a special hand built car so they can't even be compared to other cars. They need to get back to there roots. Hand make almost everything.
     
  7. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
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    Texas!
     
  8. Mark(study)

    Mark(study) F1 Veteran
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    Clax you are the Rolex/Ferrari brand player that I"m most interested in hearing your point of veiw....

    Porsche built the boxter and SUV to stay finainacial alive and independent... not because they wanted to. The Auto industry changes fast today... there are too many capable players.

    Ferrari is heading the same way, as the Auto Industry becomes more mature and competitive. At some point Ferrari has no choice... grow market share or be bought. Would you support Ferrari doing and entry-level to save itself from becoming a division under VW?

    exclusiveness or independence, which is more important?... if the changing Auto Industry made it necesssary to choose?
     
  9. dan360

    dan360 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2003
    2,669
    Boston
    Umm dude - Ferrari is already owned by Fiat, this is why it will stay resolutely up market.

    Fiat->Alfa->Maserati->Ferrari as you go up market.

    Ferrari/Fiat is rumoured to want to exercise the option to buy back the 30 odd percent that is currently owned by Italian Investment banks.
     
  10. Mark(study)

    Mark(study) F1 Veteran
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    I asked a business case study question. I am interrested in what you guys think?

    If your answer is Fiat? I find that interesting also. Could be a short term answer?, fiat and alfa are a mess? maserati is weak.


    Porsche answered it one way(boxter & suv), Lambo answered it another (VW Audi). The Market forces may yet make Ferrari answer this question also. I just wanted to know which way you'd go?

    exclusiveness or independence, which is more important?
     
  11. Clax

    Clax Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2002
    1,611
    Let me first clarify that I don't really consider myself a brand player, but more an appreciator of fine products. I still appreciate Porsche products (despite the dilution of their brand), but not nearly as much as Ferrari or Lamborghini. I think that it's safe to say that a person that spends $300K on a car does not want to see cars of the same brand every 10 minutes (as is the case with Boxsters in California or Florida, for example).

    I'm not certain that Ferrari only has 2 choices (grow market share or be bought). Considering that they are already in the hands of Fiat, choice number 2 is already a reality. If companies like Ferrari water down their marque, it is going to create a market opportunity for a company to steal a portion of the exclusive-car market (companies like Pagani, for example).

    I would not support the addition of an entry-level model under any conditions. I do not believe that a company needs to build a $50K vehicle to survive. As long as there is a demand for the product, and there is sufficient profit to sustain the company, why would there be a need for an entry-level vehicle? Ferrari needs to differentiate themselves from other companies, not mimick them. If the company cannot survive without building an entry-level vehicle, then there are surely other major problems in the company (for example production costs, designs not appealing, quality not up to snuff, performance not on par with competition, etc.).
     
  12. Clax

    Clax Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2002
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  13. Clax

    Clax Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2002
    1,611
    Oops, sorry about the double post.
     
  14. Mark(study)

    Mark(study) F1 Veteran
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    Thanks for your insights.

    If Porsche wasn't forced into expanding market share to stay independant? Why do you think they did it? Any ideas?
     
  15. dan360

    dan360 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2003
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    You're right about Porsche - its about survival - in Autocar last week there's a story about a 4 door saloon 500hp rival for the M5 E55.

    The discussion about Ferrari is moot since its already in Fiat's hands.

    A much more likely scenario is Ferrari being sold by Fiat to someone else. Fiat is in a very large amount of trouble and following the Agnelli dynasty ending the charismatic leadership is gone.

    Ford might yet get to buy Ferrari...
     
  16. s2mikey

    s2mikey Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
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  17. need4speed

    need4speed Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
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    Pacific Palisades
    Wouldn't Ferrari resurrecting the Dino line satisfy all concerned? Even when the Dino was new, everyone new it was produced by Ferrari. Yet being considerably less expensive didn't seem to hurt.

    One thing that I must point out is the extraordinary styling of the Dino. It is so universally loved that it has been taken under the Ferrari marque. If Ferrari were to resurrect another Dino, they must do better than the styling of the Enzo. I've read some headlines about the 612 Scaglietti being a return of the beautiful Ferrari. IMHO, the 612 looks like it could have come from a number of other companies. Maybe it's the requirements of the day that's driving all the manufacturers to the same conclusions but I think there is still a lot of fresh thinking around.

    I personally am intrigued by the AUREA PROTOTYPE. Check it out on www.ferraribuy.com.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
  18. vraa

    vraa Formula 3
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    Oct 31, 2003
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    I'm the poser that wanted an SUV.

    Porsche of Ferrari? I don't care if it's costs 120K? It sure rips the pants of my dads SL! :D
     
  19. Clax

    Clax Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2002
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    That is not my interest. However, I do expect that in spending $300K that you will end up with a unique product.

    I don't live in California either. But, I use that locale as an example of what can happen with brand dilution.

    In order to build a $50K car, you better build a lot more than 10-15 thousand of them if you plan on keeping the company in a profitable situation.

    Sounds like you have a bad attitude towards F-car drivers. Sorry you feel that way. Funny thing is that sometimes no matter how logically you speak, and how objective your viewpoint is, as an F-car owner there is always somebody willing to label you as s2mikey has done here. No worries Mikey, I'm not surprised either.
     
  20. Hubert

    Hubert F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2002
    2,642
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    I don't get the "brand dillution" comments. How will the brand be dilluted if in addition to the 4,500 units produced of the main line (i.e., 612, 575, 360) there's an added 5,000 units produced of an entry level model? How will ONE of the (estimated) 1,500 575's -- custom tailored to you assuming you're ordering new. How will YOUR car be dillute? It's not as if the Ferrari/Fiat/Masers don't share a parts bin already?
    And, how can the brand get any more dillute... hold on guys, I gotta answer my Ferrari cell phone, and type a message on my Ferrari key board and computer, then, later, with my ferrari camera, I'm gonna take a picture of my Ferrari in my driveway, while wearing my ferrari sweater, shoes, shorts , socks and hat under my Ferrari flag.
    Yeah, no sign of merchandising and diluttion here already, huh?
    ps: Porsche is still an ind. co., unlike Ferrari.
     
  21. fly

    fly Karting

    Nov 20, 2003
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    I agree, I like the current front engine 12’s, but nothing says Ferrari like a mid engine 12 cylinder!
     
  22. Clax

    Clax Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2002
    1,611
    What would be the purpose of making only 5,000 units of an entry-level model?
     
  23. AJS328

    AJS328 F1 Veteran
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    Apr 23, 2003
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    Hubert,

    You'd be wearing your Ferrari cologne while you do all that, right? :)







    p.s. If they re-introduced the Dino, I'd be the first in line to buy one.
     
  24. jim g

    jim g Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2003
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    Jim Gress
    No way would I want Ferrari to make a car in the 50K to 75K range. I agree totally with the marque being deluted and thats precisely why I wouldn't spend $400K for a Carrera GT but I would spend double that amount on an Enzo. Its not being a snob at all or should a Timex that probably keeps time better then my Rolex cost $10,000. When you have a car obtainable by the masses there isn't anyway to command top dollar for your other products. Also for anyone wanting Ferrari to raise there prices, are you nuts? They cost plenty and I like the waiting list, it assures people with patience excellent often unheard of re-sale values, and if you dont want to wait make me an offer. Read up on future models wait your turn and keep your deposit at the dealer for your next one. Its simple.
     
  25. jim g

    jim g Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2003
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    Jim Gress
    One more thing Luca if your reading any of this please replace the 575 with an in your face exotic that will eat Lambos for lunch.
     

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