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What is the biggest problem Ferrari needs to overcome?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Ferruccio, Dec 16, 2003.

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What is the biggest problem Ferrari needs to overcome?

  1. Needs better Reliability

  2. Needs More HP

  3. Needs to build them useing less technology and more handbuilt craftsmen techniques (focus on there a

  4. Needs to be less expensive

  5. Needs more exotic styling

  6. Needs to stop selling them to posers (Tommy)

  7. Needs to sell a SUV (vote for this one and your a poser lol)

  8. Other PLEASE SPECIFY IN POST

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Clax

    Clax Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2002
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    I think that Porsche was in a different situation than Ferrari is. The 911 is their flagship product, and quite frankly, although I like the 911, it definitely not an exotic car (in my mind). People are not on 3-year waiting lists for new 911's. The 911 is a great car, and there will always be a demand for it, but not nearly the demand that is in place for Ferrari's. So, Porsche wasn't about to try and compete with the demand of other exotics, so introducing an entry-level car that looked like a 911 was their solution. Personally, I would rather have seen them produce a car like the Carrera GT in a reasonable production capacity (more than currently planned), use less exotic ($$$$) materials, and sell it for around $250-300K. Porsche is really missing out big-time in the $150K-250K range (smack-dab where the huge demand for the 360 lies).
     
  2. Mark(study)

    Mark(study) F1 Veteran
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    Jim do you really mean that?

    Who puts brand names & production numbers into the equation? Over car fun factor?

    Enzo might be 4% faster, GT might be more fun with targa top?

    I don't even like porsche, but I'd give it a fair test drive. I want to find who built the best car for me, in the price range I was hunting in.

    You'd walk away, just because of deluted marque?
     
  3. Mark(study)

    Mark(study) F1 Veteran
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    I agree. Porsche needs a new shape in the $250k range. That one step up with something fresh looking, and then you can go against Lambo and Ferrari.

    Instead they went for the ENZO and MB super car range. Big mistake.
     
  4. jeffdavison

    jeffdavison Formula 3
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    I voted for "other"

    I thinkthe biggest problem is spare & replacement part pricing.

    I can deal with the price of the car, I can handle the insurance, and $90 to $110 an hour for service is manageable. But FNA has gotten very greedy as to how dear they hold the pricing of the spares relative to prices in other (European) markets and also relative to other high end marques.

    FNA - please get the parts pricing more in line with reality.


    Jeff Davison
     
  5. kverges

    kverges F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
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    I guess I am getting old, bitter and intolerant, but:

    Why can't the persons who claim to own exotic and expensive things also have the education and concern to spell and learn the difference between words like "then" and "than." It simply amazes me (and shows education has nothing to do with income) that I can virtually never read a thread on this or other boards without these types of errors that just make me cringe. And I'm not talking typos here, as I readily forgive that for which I am often guilty.

    Deluted!!!! Maybe deluded would be better.

    Flame me if you like, but try to do so with better than third-grade grammar & spelling, at least I will apprecite your flair.
     
  6. Schatten

    Schatten F1 World Champ
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    You forgot the most common error: your vs. you're. Quite difficult to bear at times, and unfortunately is becomming generally accepted as "you know what I meant."

    BTW, I voted reliability, which I should have voted for 'other'. Ferrari should promote the restorations of their cars in economical ways. Porsche certainly did, and that's to keep their classic cars out on the road. Reliability and maintenance - I would like to direct it towards belts. I know they are light and help out performance, but I'm sure some of you would give away 10 or 15 horses from your 400 horses to save several thousand dollars every few years. (you can always get it back with a tubi and tuning!)
     
  7. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    tanks four contribuating to teh treadd.
     
  8. Hubert

    Hubert F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2002
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    It was just a figure. I could have said 10,ooo , 15, ooo, etc. My main goal is to get across the point that the Ferrari "allure" has already been over exposed in merchandise, kinick knacks, etc. (The Ferrari store in Maranello is testament to that). Therefore, it's a moot point to argue for the conservation of marque that Joe Blow can buy a piece through the purchase of a pen, a watch and some cologne that all come from the same mythic unicorn factory in a little town nestled in the italian countryside; your percieved sense of exclusivity, Clax, is what Ferrari is banking on when they, no joke, ask 150euro for a pullover sweater -- your "exclusive" niche marque no longer exists. At least if they built an "entry level" model (which at $50k and $75k range is a joke anyway), and passed on selling all that memrobilia, then you could at least argue that they're still a car co., rather than a merchandise monopoly.
    Ferrari is not an independent co., it's become a commodity owned by Fiat -- the Maser "revival" didn't do much, and why? Because the cars were/are not priced competativly within their respective market share (read the archives, everyone here agreed on this fact), and what you're all missing is that should this situtation linger (i.e., the mother co. losing money like it's going out of style), Fiat may sell Ferrari as a last ditch attempt to avoid solvency, or they'll make a 4 door sedan -- which, will cause me to piss my pants in laughter, but will make everyone here reach for the hemlock and go on screaming about brand dillution.
    Forseably, we could all agree that a model like the Dino246 could generate a welcome and much needed influx of capital into the Fiat Co. while opening up the world of ferrari ownership to a new demographic; ie., me. And what's wrong with that , really? 17 ferrari brand sweaters, a bottle of cologne and a pair of shoes don't add up to a car, but one car could make up for brand whoring via memrobilia revenue, nest pas?
    Lastly, should ferrari up it's production by introducing a new model, it would be able to have a greater number of itterations going through beta testing, and we would, probably, see a marketedly sharp rise in build quality and reliability as they'd have to change/update production capacity and methodology -- unless, of course, they decide to build over priced tunas can, and, again, bandk on the laurels of the "marque mystique" v. actually producing an ingenious new niche model.
     
  9. KKSBA

    KKSBA F1 World Champ
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    LOL. Hye u mispeld contribuating, itz conetrybuateing
     
  10. Mark(study)

    Mark(study) F1 Veteran
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  11. squidracing

    squidracing Formula Junior

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    Displacement......it's all about those 'cubic inches' (ok cubic cm).

    Ferrari leads the world when it comes to getting the most hp out of a normally aspirated motor. Why am I screaming around the track with 380 hp in a 355 Challenge when I can just as easily scream around the track with 650 hp in a '605' Challenge? If the rest of the world is going to large displacement motors, why doesn't Ferrari?

    As far as pratical use....forget about it. I'm a track junkie...I'll use it. You street guys....at least you know it's there if you need it.

    Personally, I think Ferrari doesn't want to 'give' the public a car with so much hp, as that will remove a whole section of their product cycle. Sort of like why the U.S. doesn't have all the great cellphones yet. Asia and Europe has them....we don't. The manufacturers want to make the money from the product cycle. Their thinking must be 'why not make the public wait (and pay) for the best'.
     
  12. vraa

    vraa Formula 3
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    Are you from Texas? Because that is the second thing I was thinking when I posted my previous comment but I was like, naw, I don't think many people are from the south like me :D

    Why is there an astrerik next to my 1.08% 1 vote in the poll?
     
  13. winston

    winston Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
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    How about better fuel mileage. Even when driven sedately mt 456m gets at best 17mpg.
     
  14. vraa

    vraa Formula 3
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    That's pretty good seeing my LS400 gets around the same. Well, give or take another 6mpg, but remember, you're having the time of your life those few hundred miles!
     
  15. JaguarXJ6

    JaguarXJ6 F1 Veteran

    Feb 12, 2003
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    Hubert, well said. However, I have to disagree with the dillution comments and increasing production to 10k/year. The image those new cars will be projecting is, look at me, a very expensive, pretty sub-exotic sports or family car, with moderate performance and horrible reliability, but now you (or more of you) can have one too! Or is that a Ferrai disguised as a Maser disguised as a Ferrari?

    Biggest problem? Quality/reliability. Unless Fiat has 500 mil USD burning a hole in their pocket, its not going to be discovered by making an entry level model, and with trial and error. A factory commitment to more than just racing would be a good start.

    More money is made off licensing then the cars. Same thing with Coca-Cola or Pepsi, Microsoft, you name it. Why should they bother making them reliable?

    Something is going to "give." Its going to be performance, reliability, money from Fiat, kicking the Maser name to the curb in favor of funding the Ferrari name. Ferrari was not concieved as automobile company, and neither were the likes of Aston Martin, and yet they both survive by being propped up by others.

    Production will never grow to be remotely close to being "common" and a "common failure" at that. That will hurt the merchandising campaign, because without that, Fiat would have sold Ferrari off a long time ago.
     
  16. sparetireless

    sparetireless Formula 3
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    Ferrari makes the best car in the world for what I want to do with it, to improve on it further: (You asked!)


    12 Cyclinder mid engine or rear engine.

    Targa Style Roof.

    Full glass canopy like the spyker laviolet model.

    Higher red line.

    Better horn, (old style)

    Italian language on gauges, switches and levers. (I'd rather translate myself)

    Chrome gauge bezzels.

    Supply a spare tire with tools and a jack. (a lot of other car companies are doing this these days)

    Ability to order a variety of gearbox ratios, I don't really need 180 top speed, I would rather have a better accelaration in the lower ranges.

    More torque.
     
  17. davequick

    davequick Formula Junior

    May 27, 2003
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    #1) less expensive to maintain - I can live with 10% less power for something that doesn't take 5 digits a year to maintain.

    #2) I want somethign that doens't look like it was designed by a freaking committee and a computer. I love the 60s vehicles. (330GTC, etc.)
     
  18. Cavallino Motors

    Cavallino Motors F1 World Champ
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    Cupholders...CUPHOLDERS!!!!! :)
     
  19. Cavallino Motors

    Cavallino Motors F1 World Champ
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    You are completely missing the point buddy.
    A Ferrari (car) is unique because not everybody can afford one. You rarely see them. You get excited when you do. If you see them on every street corner, be that a entry level or the flag ship, you will lose interest. I do not turn my head for a 911 or a Boxer anymore unless a hot chick with open top sits in it. Neither does anybody else. May be different in the mid west where everything other than a pickup truck is "exotic" but that is just the reality here.

    Brand dilution is when you use your brand name and make more and more to increase profits for the quick gain and lose the interest of your fans. Hence in a few years people do not want to buy anymore sneekers, shirts, hats, computers, pens etc.
    You don't find Porsche sneekers, do you?
     
  20. Cavallino Motors

    Cavallino Motors F1 World Champ
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    As far as reliability:

    I have yet to get stranded in any of my Ferraris. Not one has let me down in the street. I put about 7000 Miles a year on Ferraris, maybe even more. Not once!

    As far as poor built quality:
    with 36 Miles on the clock I sent my new H2 back to the dealer for mis-matching parts, various things not working. They had the car for 4 days to fix it and it still is not 100%. Can not say I ever found that on any of my Ferraris. The difference, one is built by hand where you should expect inconsistencies and the other by a robot where you should expect PERFECT fit.
     
  21. sjb509

    sjb509 Guest

    Why not an entry-level car? Don't call it a Ferrari, rather a Maser or Dino as some have suggested. Surely somewhere in Fiat's factories there is enough excess capacity to accomodate 10,000 extra cars a year. I thought a big reason Fiat is in trouble is falling sales (which would create the excess capacity). Put the existing Maser engine in the new mid-engine car; producing more of the engines would undoubtedly increase the quality/reliability for the reasons mentioned in previous posts.

    On new-car prices: If Ferrari should raise prices because of the resale market is higher than MSRP, does that mean that Maserati should lower its prices for the same reason? Whenever I see a slightly used Maser (<3k miles), they are nearly always around $70k, not the $90-100k they sold for a few months before.

    On over-marketing the name: As much as I like Ferrari (and lust after owning one some day), the commercialization is getting a little ridiculous. Where will it end? Cavallino Condoms or Rampante Puffs Cereal? Porsche may have "diluted" their brand (I would call it "expanded"), Ferrari has done the same thing, only with liscenced products, rather than an SUV. FWIW, the Cayenne is the best-selling Porsche model, so apparently there is a demand.

    I personally would not object to a Maserati SUV. If it brings in extra revenue that allows Ferrari to produce even better products, who cares?

    I'm inviting serious flamage with this last point, but after reading through this thread I have to ask it. Given the current state of Fiat's financials, the limited production capacity (self-imposed) of Ferrari, and the rather limited product range of Ferrari, would it be possible that Ferrari could be in financial trouble as well in the near future? In fifty years which brand will still exist: Porsche or Ferrari? (In 1953 most would have laughed if you had said that Ferrari would someday control Maserati and Alfa, but the unthinkable does happen).
     
  22. Clax

    Clax Formula 3

    Oct 3, 2002
    1,611
    Exactly. This is right on the money.
     
  23. Clax

    Clax Formula 3

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    For those of you that are talking about building 10,000 cars per year of an entry-level $50K car, you are basically asking Fiat/Ferrari to lose MORE money. You cannot build 10,000 $50K cars per year and expect to make a profit, unless the car is a rolling piece of sh#t. Economically, this proposed idea just doesn't equate.
     
  24. WCH

    WCH F1 Veteran
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    Mar 16, 2003
    5,179
    Interesting thread. My personal view:


    Expand Maserati as the entry level brand.

    Please, please do not increase production of Ferraris. In very conservative Washington, DC, where there seem to be hardly any exotics, one sees many, many 996 iterations; they all look alike. I say that as one who admires Porsche and has owned a number of them.

    No sub $150K Ferrari

    Concentrate on art first, add performance appropriate for the niche. I'm not buying the "best" numbers and find the endless "mine's bigger" magazine racing amusing. Celebrate Italian styling, flair.

    I'd also like to see a performance 12cyl, preferably a mid-engine car, or a 575 lightweight or "Stradale." I wish Ferrari would always make at least one bare bones, lightweight, performance car like the 360CS.

    I'd like to see Ferrari continue to make a track only car, available to all comers.

    Reliability? I don't expect Lexus reliability from an extremely high performance sportscar, and IMO those who do should buy something else.

    I don't think any changes are needed in the allocation of cars to customers, but I'll leave that to those who know what they are talking about: I don't.

    Cheers, Will
     
  25. KKSBA

    KKSBA F1 World Champ
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    Not to mention that if thousands of these entry level Ferrari's are produced, they will completely clog the service bays of the few F dealerships.

    Your 1 week wait for service will go to 2 months for minor stuff. Major stuff, make an appointment, we have November 12th or December 14th available 2004.
     

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