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360 What is this moving thing behind the crankshaft key?

Discussion in '360/430' started by mahlerfree, Aug 9, 2020.

  1. mahlerfree

    mahlerfree Rookie

    Dec 19, 2019
    41


    It moves in and out as I rotate the crankshaft. Is it supposed to do that? Something's wrong?
     
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  3. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 29, 2009
    14,927
    Honolulu
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    Kevin
    That's really interesting! BUT...You are supposed to have a spacer installed before doing this operation!
     
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  4. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2016
    3,315
    Uk
    Good way to chew up the key and keyway fit
     
  5. mahlerfree

    mahlerfree Rookie

    Dec 19, 2019
    41
    Hi, are you saying this is normal and if I have a spacer there or the pulley there, I am fine?


     
  6. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 29, 2009
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    IDK what normal is but with the spacer installed that movement is not possible. This is the view from underneath with spacer installed.

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  8. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 10, 2007
    5,604
    Lake Villa IL
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    James Moran
    [QUOTE="mahlerfree]

    It moves in and out as I rotate the crankshaft. Is it supposed to do that? Something's wrong?[/QUOTE]

    Yes it does. You've removed the component limiting forward/aft movement on a helical gearset.

    Is it supposed to do that? No

    Somethings wrong? Well no all things considered
     
  9. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    10,636
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    You are not supposed to remove the crankshaft pulley and then do that turning operation. That is the gear that mates with the two gears which turn the cam sprockets. The crank pulley occupies that space and keeps the gear from moving in and out like that. Put the pulley back before you do any cam timing maneuvers.
     
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  10. toussi1

    toussi1 Karting

    Jun 10, 2007
    90
    USA
    #8 toussi1, Aug 10, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
    I also did the same thing without putting in a spacer. I'm totally lost why the spacer is needed.

    Have we done some damage? Anyway to check?

    #10 is OIL PUMP CONTROL GEAR
     

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  11. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2016
    3,315
    Uk
    From what i see on the diagram the end of the crankshaft has a keyway machined into it, then the key (9) is fitted and then the gear (10). The accurate position of the gear teeth relies on the precision fits off all these items as this gear is the initial drive for the cam belts on both banks.

    By allowing the key to twist you run the risk of damage to the key, also the keyway in the crank. Keys are usually a light interference fit in the keyway, so you need the end of a screwdriver and a light hammer to remove. Get any slack in these and you risk them damaging each other, plus the keyway in the gear.

    I am surprised to see the key moving that much, r u sure it is not worn- have a look at the sides of it to see if any signs of a step where it may have twisted. Is it a tight fit on the crank. Measure the width where it goes i the gear and the crank, should be the same

    I used to hand make shaft keys if we did not have one, by rough machining in a lathe and then filing to fit . Takes a bit of time through
     
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  13. mahlerfree

    mahlerfree Rookie

    Dec 19, 2019
    41
    Hi, Mike32,
    These are from service manual, maybe you can explain to us layman a little more?
    The first 2 photos are the back of the front cover , after removed.
    The last photo is the engine side after removing the front cover


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  14. mahlerfree

    mahlerfree Rookie

    Dec 19, 2019
    41
    I have developed a further question..... What is this part, arrowed. Obviously, it is not the "#10 , OIL PUMP CONTROL GEAR" , because , as you can see from above photos, #10 is stopped there with the chain for oil pumping

    This part is actually what is driving the timing gears. Do we have a part number or diagram for this?

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  15. mahlerfree

    mahlerfree Rookie

    Dec 19, 2019
    41
    found it. It is 160598. Here is another photo for the actual driving gear.
     

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  16. mike32

    mike32 F1 Rookie

    May 13, 2016
    3,315
    Uk
    The 2 big gears number 11 are the driven gears, the gear with the arrow is the drive gear from the crank.
    You will see that the size ratio of the drive to driven gear is about half size. This is a 4 stroke engine so the camshaft rpm is half the crankshaft rpm, hence the difference in gear size. These driven gears provide the drive to the cam belt and up to the cam shafts
     
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