What to look for with a Euro 3x8?

Bumpers,side intrusion beams in doors,cat converters,air pumps,muffler grill shields,full size spare wheel do not add up to an extra 300+lbs (more like 150-160lbs is correct). As for the extra bracing, Ferrari only installed extra bracing at the rear of the car and the amount is documented very well in Newman's restoration when he removed all of the bracing in question. The weight was no more than 15-20lbs. Ferrari was very creative with figures during this time, and anyone who worked on them in the era confirms this almost regularly here on fchat.

 

great post Pete. my GTB QV was sold new as a German spec car. *44297* is my vin, so mine should weigh in around there. i rarely have the spare, jack kit or anything else in the car, so that would knock off a few pounds as well. michael

 

Have to disagree with you on one point here John.The US market 308's had extra chassis bracing in the front and rear compared to the Euro cars!

If you look at Wally Wyss's book the "The complete guide to the Ferrari 308 series",page 8,there are pictures of the Bare 308 chassis (both Euro and USA market) taken at the factory by noted Ferrari historian Hilary A. Raab Jnr.The USA chassis feature quite pronounced extra tubular bracing both front and rear.

I have also worked on a US import car and the front chassis bracing was different to that of my own car! Your US market bumper regulations at the time were 10 mph impact with no damage,compared to 5 mph here in Australia and Europe if I remember correctly! Thats why the US cars featured the massive bumpers. They were steel with a rubber coating I think whilst Euro and ROW were fibreglass!

I'm not saying that explains the weight differences,but it certainly contributes....

The floorpan on Euro /ROW cars is also "full length" fibreglass" which I believe is not the case with USA cars from memory????

Also at the time of the 308QV'S The German TUV regulations were acknowledged as the strictest in the world. They are generally credited by most motoring writers at the time as being responsible for Ferrari being "forced to tell the truth"about their cars horsepower rather than the old italian"lets think of a nice round number" approach!

My 308 GTS qv is an Australian spec car(Basically the Euro)but with some US market features.i.e. side intrusion beams in doors)and as I said my owners manual provides 2956 lbs/1341 kg as the weight" without optionals"!

Cheers

Pete

 

That is neat! I would love to see the bracing photos. I have also seen photos of a bare US chassis, but taken in the 70s and only saw rear bracing for US market cars. Perhaps they added more to the front later in production? I wonder what chassis number this might have started with? Great post

 

Something I thought was strange about Aus market carb cars was the specifically the cam timing. The Aus cars would have Euro setup in several respects, but the early cam timing was the same for the US cars with the intake opening 34BTDC as opposed to 30BTDC which gives a bit more overlap and raises the powerband peak rpm.

The German market owners manuals still show Ferrari bhp during this time to be what they wanted, so who knows how Ferrari got past that one out there. Maybe they accepted DIN figures rather than SAE? I have full length fiberglass at the bottom of my car, but it is an early car.

And I was thinking, is the extra tubular framing you speak of the bumper shock mounts for the US cars? If so, yes they are different. Euro cars had tiny mounts for their bumpers. The extra bracing I speak of is actual extra chassis members and small beams welded at the rear of the car which contribute to about 15 extra lbs at the rear.

 

Was just flipping through a Euro manual on line. What the heck does "weight without optionals" mean? Dry weight?

 

Probably A/C is the biggest "optional." Condenser, lines, blower, evaporator, pump. That's probably 45 lbs. of stuff. And knowing the Italians at that time, probably things like fuel, battery (hey you could push start it), washer fluid, spare tire, tools, etc. were optionals as well.

 

I had no idea the A/C system had that much weight to it, no wonder certain sport cars have A/C missing, along with no carpet and roll up windows. I mean, technically, we can optionally pull the huge floor mats out because there's no carpet underneath.

I think once we figure out the "weight without options," we should have a better understanding of where these low numbers are coming from.

1 gallon of gas = 6 to 6.3 lbs (depending on the season). What season did they test the 308 . I am going to bet that it was weighed though empty.

 

Yup, and dont forget the heaviest part of an ac system, the compressor. Those things are basically small engines...LOL (ever pick one up??)

 

oops.....Guess you DID include it.....I first didnt recognise it as "the pump". Just the same, good point.

 

Some more interesting differing weight figures betwwen Euro and US market 308's!


US market 308i 2V GTB 3309 lbs (1501 Kg) GTS 3360lbs(1524 kg)

Euro/R.O.W 308i 2V GTB 2835 lbs (1286 Kg) GTS 2859 lbs (1297 kg)


In comparison the earlier 308 steel body carby cars Ferrari quoted 2403 lbs (1090 kg)for both 308 GTB and GTS models for Euro/R.O.W cars and 3110 lbs (1410 kg) for USA market 308 GTB and GTS models.

* All figures from collection of original factory brochures for the model at the time.

Comments please?????

 

i can see 2800, but 2400 for a GTB, wow!

i have had several variations of 308 thus far. i removed the 390mm wheels and went with 16s on my QV GTB. then i added the euro front valance. my old valance was the original shallow sheet metal valance that is correct for some German sold cars. there was a big weight different, as the glass valance is much lighter than the well made sheet metal front valance. i can see a/c, and euro fiberglass bumper and bit really adding up to a weight difference on the GTBs. i have never likes the GTS cars, because you can REALLY feel the difference at even low speed, between the butt dyno and the feel of the cars.

i prefer the feel and looks of the GTB. others may like the wind in the hair feel of a GTS.

the gts cars, early carb, or QV injected, feel too heavy to me. the steering feel alone is really noticeable.


edit : i i keep this QV i am going to look for a set of black BBS 16 inch wheels for the car, and take off these repo 16's. i swear one of the reasons my little GT4 was so much fun, was the fact the BBS wheels it has were so light weight. the QV wheels, factory or repo, are freaking heavy!

 

Has anyone put their 308 on scales (corner weights)?

I raced production Porsche's twenty years ago. I weighed about 15 different cars (street and race). I found that most printed weights of early 70's 911's were incorrect.

Just my 2 cents

 

I was thinking about looking for some 16" BBS wheels, gold though, for my car as well. Do you know what the proper f/r sizes, bolt pattern, and offset I should be looking for?

 

I still have the ticket from when I put my '85' Euro 308 GTS QV on some scales and it weighed in at 2952 lbs. with about 1/4 tank of gas.