What will be the next model to go up in value? The 599?

Indeed.


And bragging about an F1 single clutch is new to me.


Don't figure either the 599 or 575 going to rocket up anytime soon.



But who knows.

 

The 575 6 speed cars took off like a rocket. The F1 equiped cars also went up big time. However, the F1 cars have since come back down but the 6 speeds are still up well above past trading prices.

 

I think the F12 will be the cap for the paddle shift cars, the performance is staggering for the price and I think it looks much better than the 599. Once the F12 dips below $200K it will be difficult to think about other models.

 

Well what happened with air cooled porsches? Just remember everything is now dual clutch and that as time goes by, collectors are influenced not by the desire for modern technology but by the longing for the old, and mediocre systems ie carburetors vs electronic fuel injection.

Again only 1800 or so of these F1 coupes were ever made, the only ferrari that can ever be called the first road going non manual Ferrari V12.......

 

Spider conversion

 

Perhaps an interesting view of this thread should be "What Ferrari has bottomed out"?

You can never tell the bottom until it's turned upward. That said by someone who was lucky enough to own some 911 and 993 when the air cooled market moved. As for Ferraris... I think another issue is the "barrier to entry". There are a number of Porsche owners I know who lust after my 456M thinking that the cost is much greater than it is and thinking that maintenance will kill them. I've explained that the can enter the real V12 "F" world for under 70k and that I think it's a bargain.

To follow through from the OP question .... Everything 12 cylinder.

With China as the top market and severe limitations on mpg and emissions on the books I believe that by 2020 the engine will disappear or the displacement of the 12 will be reduced and supplemented with turbo's or superchargers other than perhaps a very limited edition.

Despite all of the great cars produced by Ferrari that aren't 12's .... When you talk to people (not me, but other people who know) they all say that "Real Ferrari's have 12 cylinders" ... You can almost hear it from the walls when touring the factory... As an example....

Visited the factory last September... A wonderful experience and I appreciate my dealer and Ferrari North America for making the arrangements.

In the engine building you slowly and reverently walk by the 12 cylinder assembly area when you are told that "Each technician produces an engine from the assembled parts in the cart in front of them in a day" and you watch them work with the precision of a surgeon. Then learn about the test cell where they are all run.

You cross the factory floor and are shown and told "This is where all the other engines are made here, including Maserati and special edition Alfa's much of it by automation" and they are not tested in the same way as they are "production" pieces.

You can make the decision as to what still holds the top spot .....

 

Interesting, when I was walking by the 12 cylinder assembly line last May, one guy was being really talkative to his coworkers and virtually everyone (men and women) were looking up from their stations to stare at the chick who was in our tour group. Reason being because she had a fairly short skirt (halfway between the knees and ass) and she had some really nice legs.

Must be the precision of an Italian surgeon lol!

 

This, and it's real!
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Do you mind expanding on that a bit? What kind of computers do you think will cause problems? My 2004 Maserati Coupe had a computer for the taillights, one for the A/C controls, etc. but as far as I know, most modern cars are like that and they seem to be fairly reliable. Obviously any F1 car will need an SD3 system but besides that what do you think can give problems as far as electronics go?

I don't think air cooled and F1 are an apples to apples comparison. Air cooled engines are simpler and arguably more reliable; they're still just part of a nostalgic package (old 911s from when their respective owners drooled after them) but an F1 system is not simpler nor more reliable. It is part of the nostalgia if you grew up drooling after a 575 or 599 or whatever it was.

 

If you want to talk about the expense of replacing old, "computers" I'd have to put the earlier ECU's in there. I had to replace the ECU's that controlled the windows and door locks, and the one for the climate control system in my '01 456M, and they were very expensive. And this was six years ago when they were still available new from the factory.

But we'll probably have the technology to clone those things eventually.

I remember when EFI came out, reading stories about how the era of the shade tree mechanic was over. Now, some of my redneck car guy buds can reprogram ECU's with a laptop and a chip burner. Motorcycles and autos.

 

Not more reliable by a longshot....you ever had to get a top end rebuild? very common, and you will do it more than once if you own the car long emough. The oil cooled cars ending with the 993 have a lot of classic elements like the small size, the full frame doors, and the floor mounted pedals which are a hoot to use. That series of cars have the last truly mechanical feel that Porsche ever built.....And the sound is unique.

 

At the moment, not all V-12 cars are collectible.....isn't the model that replaced the Daytona in the late 70s still way under $100k? Same with the 456 as you say.....and the 612 (I assume that is a 12 cyl). While I agree that the 12 cylinder engine is on its last legs, I'm not convinced its disappearance with cause a buying frenzy....this is a snowflake world and we will soon be the outliers.

Several brands have V-12 cars.....so I'll go back to what is special. One reason I bought a Lamborghini Diablo Roadster is because it was the last hand built mid-engine V-12 all manual transmission car with a removable roof for less than a million bucks....AND they made less than 450 so the low production is there also.

Great discussion, hope we can keep it civil.

 

Here's an old comparo article of the then new 599 versus the 550. The side-by-side photos really make the 599 look huge.
http://www.asphalte.ch/news/2007/04/road-test-ferrari-599-gtb-vs-550-maranello/
Image Unavailable, Please Login
And the 550 isn't exactly a small car. Same frame as the 456 2+2!

 

Electronics is one thing I don’t really mess with since I don’t know much about it. Why do they fail, the circuits break or what? If that’s the case I figure it might be a fairly easy fix.

The 599 looks HUGE next to the 550!

 

you're talking about the 400i? No offense to guys who own those or grew up wanting those but they look awful imo but then again thats just my opinion and I think the 575 is gorgeous and others may not. In the end when you look at classic beauties like the 275 gtb or the daytona or the lusso the name ferrari 400i never pops into your head for 99.9% of ferrari fans so I believe thats why it has never really soared, but they aren't exactly cheap either. The 456 is a super cool car, so is the 612, but did you know the 456 shares alot of parts with run of the mill GM cars? I think that hurts its collectiblity but the 456 looks cool, I love it, and actually almost bought a silver one on BaT recently for around $60k or so.... but it wasn't a car you had posters of growing so I think alot of guys grow up and buy their childhood dream cars and usually those tend to be the super exotic looking ones and not the 4 seat ferraris.

 

You know, I used to agree with you about the 400/412, because at the time, I was in love with the 365 GTB/4 Daytona and the 365 GTC/4 2+2 - both gorgeous cars - and the following 2+2's just seemed like two door sedans in comparison. Now, however, they seem quite handsome to me, and objectively they were ergonomically better and more practical. I wouldn't mind having a perfect 412i at all! Less than 600 412's built!
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I never thought the 365/400/412 were ugly. Just restrained and more conservative. I think time has been kind to the design. Simple yet elegant. I would argue that was sort the original intent. Prices have been creeping up, and I think it has already been called upstairs so to speak, and will only continue to appreciate. I too would be extremely proud to own a say a 412 5 speed.

 

wow

 

Look at the wheels on the F559. Huge!

 

The day the guys making Ferraris don't do that, is the day Ferrari turns into Tesla.

 

Wow! I had no idea.

 

Hey Maven and the cars we all have go up in value. We have to accept that pretty much every new Ferrari from here on out will be turbocharged at a minimum if not a hybrid motor with the 812 being the last ever naturally aspirated motor in a normal production run car. Im fine with that, Ferraris to me will always be about the artwork of the body, the engine is great but lots of lesser cars like corvettes have amazing engines, the new corvette is mind boggling actually. Ferraris will always be like a great piece of art on the interior/exterior and for me they could put an electric motor that gets me to 60 in 1.9 seconds and I wouldn't care......as long as it had a great radio to play v12 engine sounds from today

 

This is even more hilarious; a 599 next to a 275.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I would say bragging about the F1 Superfast clutch would be warranted.....it was the best single clutch, and there are alot of people who complain about a DCT as being too smooth, and want to feel shifts.

 

I'll never understand the TR - great Flat-12 engine; but a mid-engined GT. They made nearly 10,000 amongst the family (TR, 512TR, and 512M). Not too long ago, you could pick one up for under 50K. How the predators got morons with money to go into a buying frenzy on the base TR is beyond me. The Boxer is more edgier and rarer version of the flat-12 cars.

Obviously, any Manual 599 or 612 IS collectible, along with the 599 GTO. Beyond that, it's hard to gauge. They did not make very many 599 or 612 models. The 612 is the last rear-wheel driver NA V12 2+2 made. And I don't expect any more. So, I think the 612 has just as much as a shot at collectibility as the pedestrian 599.

Time will tell; along with the predators.