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Whats better? The enzo or porsche carrera GT

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by FerrariFlip, Jan 14, 2004.

  1. FerrariFlip

    FerrariFlip Karting

    Dec 19, 2003
    135
    Bonaire,Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Philippe Haak
    My smaller Brother keeps saying my that the Carrera GT is faster on the track, because he said to me he read it in a magazine,but i still don't believe it and the enzo is like a formula 1 car, so can someone confince him for me!!!!!!!!
     
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  3. 96impalaSS

    96impalaSS F1 Rookie

    Dec 8, 2003
    3,504
    Hell
    Full Name:
    Chris
  4. Skelter

    Skelter Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    48
    If i remember correctly fiorano is a very short track so 30 seconds is quite a lot.
     
  5. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    28,365
    Paris / Chicago
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    Andrew Menasce
    No one knows....they havent been compared yet.
     
  6. Aircon

    Aircon Eight Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 23, 2003
    84,702
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Peter
    Just like in F1 this year, I'd say the Enzo would lose because of the tyres it has....if the info above is correct.
     
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  8. LuV-2-xLr8

    LuV-2-xLr8 Rookie

    Dec 17, 2003
    1
    Carrera GT is not only about going fast, go drive an enzo and try to make a move @ 300 KM/h, You'd better don't, stability at highspeed is one of the things Porsche made to make it's car go fast around the track. Slowing the CGT is never in question, you can say that the Enzo brakes faster, but doesn't have much stability. CGT fitted with Porsches acclaimed Ceramic Composite brakes which are 380mm diameter discs front and rear, which themselves clamped by six-piston aluminium calipers. For example, stamp on the middle pedal at 200 MPH and you'll be @ 150 in a blink of an eye. Do this again @ 150 MPH, and not only can you take your hands of the steering wheel to experience the stability in straight line braking, but you'll be more than likely hit the steering wheel now that your forearms aren't bracing you.
    Keep telling me that the Enzo is a F1 car, who gives a sh*t, it's street legal, some F1 techniques, nice handling, all the racing experience Ferrari has got, wow....keep telling me. Don't you think Porsche has any?
    OF course they do, maybe even better than F1 techniques. The CGT is full of LM stuff, I don't say that LM cars are any better that f1, hell no, but for road-car techniques, hell yeah!! Look at the Streetversion of the Porsche 962(dauer).
    ..But I'm still a litlle curious about which car will be faster, not only in straight-line performance(because we know this one already), but on circuit. I'm not saying all this because I'm porsche fanatic, no, I like Ferrari as well, but I just hope Ferrari will not make it on this one, Ferrari is beaten so many times, just like porsche was..But Porsche stopped challenging Ferrari all the time.. people know this story? Porsche didn't build this car just to be the fastest supercar of the moment, no, they made it to have a masterpiece of a car, and they achieved their goal.

    Very exciting, it'll be too bad if the CGT wouldn't make it, but wouldn't care that much, but we'll see.

    How about the Pagani Zonda S, everybody said, the CGT will NOT beat the Enzo nor the Pagani. Well, this is kinda right, 1 sportscar down, 3 to go:

    http://www.flat-6.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7112

    (mind that the circuit was cold and wet, and the driver tells that there could be 10 secs of CGT's time easily)
     
  9. Aircon

    Aircon Eight Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 23, 2003
    84,702
    Melbourne, Australia
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    Peter
    Oh my God...what a load of crap that was. What are you smoking, mate? As if you'd have any idea...as if any of us would! Thing is, none of us would make the stupid assertions you have without something really good to back it up! Let me guess...it just happens that you own both, and being a current F1 test driver, have the experience and skill to test them at their limits? Well if THAT'S the case, then please tell us more.

    Peter
     
  10. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 17, 2001
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    Paris / Chicago
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    Andrew Menasce

    FYI , the Enzo produces more downforce at high speed than the CGT so making a move at 300 Kmh shouldnt be a problem if its not one in the CGT...


    Both cars have Carbon Ceramic brakes ..both have 380 mms discs..
    So the on the breaking , they should be equal as well


    As i said , we dont know which is faster ..they havent been compared.
     
  11. richard

    richard Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,394
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Richard Thompson III
    Well, that article clearly posts a Zonda and a CGT lap time. Since that is the first CGT lap time I have seen, we only have one of those. I'm sure we can dig up some other Zonda lap times from other sources. So, here's what we do (making several logical assumptions).

    1.) Get other Zonda lap times. Compare the Zonda lap time in that article to the other Zonda lap times. See how it compares (good, bad, average)

    2.) Figure based on those results that their CGT lap time was good, bad, or average.

    3.) Compare it to Enzo lap times! Speaking of which, does anyone have any?
     
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  13. zsnnf

    zsnnf Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2003
    1,877
    Well,
    The Eurotrash Magazine I read while Christmas shopping with my girlfriend had an article on the CGT. They interviewed one of the CGT Guys. He said (but said he wasn't supposed to say) that the Porsche would beat the Enzo on a track. Only by a little though.
    This same magazine also claimed the CGT was the first production car to have Carbonfibre seats.
    As soon as I got home I rushed out to the garage and spanked my F40 with the rolled up Magazine. How dare it have Carbon seats 10 years before this magazine said it could!!

    All the magazine BS aside......I saw a CGT at the L.A. car show. Could it get any uglier?

    Rick
     
  14. Mojo

    Mojo Formula 3

    Sep 24, 2002
    1,292
    Washington St.
    Full Name:
    Joseph

    Have you seen a lotus elise?
     
  15. zsnnf

    zsnnf Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2003
    1,877
    Yea, kinda cool!
     
  16. modman

    modman Formula Junior

    Nov 13, 2001
    786
    I wonder what the maintenace schedule is like on the Enzo.
     
  17. richard

    richard Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,394
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Richard Thompson III
    The magazine was Road and Track, and the man was Walter Rohrl. Although his paycheck comes from Stuttgart and he probably has a weighted opinion, independent tests seem to indicate that the Carrera GT is faster around the track in the wet. I am not forming any solid opinion until we have some independently conducted tests in all possible conditions -- I am looking to Evo magazine to do that, they have a knack for getting the reviews readers such as ourselves really want! :)

    Another thing to keep in mind is that Walter Rohrl is to Porsche what Schumacher is to Ferrari, and so he was the primary test driver the the CGT. Now call me crazy but, if I had a huge famous car company designing a supercar based around the feedback I gave them, I would be pretty happy with it as well -- the CGT is, in effect, a car custom tailored to Rohrl and his incredible driving :)
     
  18. zsnnf

    zsnnf Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2003
    1,877
    Richard,
    No doubt the Porsche is an awesome machine. I don't think it really matters which one of these cars is faster or handles better. Most of us would be honored to even be able to ride in either of these cars. Let alone drive one on the street or flat out on a race track. I know magazines misquote stuff all the time. I have had my car or where I race missrepresented more often than not. A lot of people believe everything they read. I guess that was really my point. (besides it being ugly :) )

    Rick
     
  19. rjklein

    rjklein Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    124
    Who cares they both ROCK, and I would be happy to owne either. If I had the cash It would be hard to walk past the CGT for the enzo, based on what the enzo cost to maintain.

    I have a friend who use to owne a Starship, the brakes on that thing were $80k, but it was a Airplane.

    So to have a car that the brakes cost that much to replace, I think would take the fun out of it regardless how much jack you have.
     
  20. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    Mar 17, 2002
    3,603
    Dallas, TX, USA
    Well others have already bashed your post as utter jibberish... and I'll second that... but I specifically wanted to respond to:

    WTF are you talking about? The PCCBs have been an absolute disaster for Porsche! Highly acclaimed? Infamous, perhaps. They're getting sued by those who bought the POS things. We are all praying that the Ferrari Carbon Ceramic brakes don't have the same problems.

    And as others have noted... the Enzo is equipped with awesome Carbon Ceramic brakes of the same size. Both brakes are such that stopping distances will be far more about tires and weight than any differences in the quality or size of the brakes!!


    There is one category that I will give to the Carrera, though... sound! Damn, that's as close to an F1 sound as I've ever heard in a road car... with maybe a little rocketship mixed in.
     
  21. amirgt2

    amirgt2 Karting

    Dec 11, 2003
    59
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Amir
    Only time will tell on the Enzo vs. CGT question. However, being a very lucky owner of a Stradale and a Porsche GT2, I have to tell you that the brakes on the Stradale are much better than the GT2.

    Even though the Stradale's fronts are an inch bigger and the car does weigh less, just the horrible noises (hissing and squealing) that the GT2 brakes make until they're sufficiently warmed up is down right embarrassing. Both are awesome cars though. Just my 2 cents.

    Carry on with the Enzo vs. CGT debate.

    Amir
     
  22. WILLIAM H

    WILLIAM H Three Time F1 World Champ

    Nov 1, 2003
    34,891
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    HUBBSTER
    I would take the Carrera GT just cu sthe ENZO is a little Fugly. I'd really rather have an F40LM or a 911 GT1 :)
     
  23. rmani

    rmani F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Nov 1, 2003
    7,102
    NJ
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    RMani
    Carrera GT is a phenomenal car, but the Enzo is a better car. Porsche's test driver said the Carerra GT was faster around the Nurburgring but I think he's a little biased because of who he works for. I cannot believe the Carerra GT can out-perform the Enzo on a track. My biggest gripe with the Enzo is that it's not offered with a real manual tranny.
     
  24. Hubert

    Hubert F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2002
    2,642
    The Left Coast
    if we're talking dollars and cents (which is ironic in this stratospehric price bracket) the cgt offers a better "value." now, personally (which is all that matters), i'd take the cgt -- simply b/c i think there's more novelty in the engineering, in the design and in the entire car as a whole (and the sound is glorious, and they're far from ugly!).
    about the downforce issue, the cgt has a lower top speed than the enzo, and has been touted (by walter rohrl) to have more downforce than the enzo -- i don't know for sure.
    my only wish is that neither of the cars had the carbon/ceramic brakes, because the porsche pccb's have been a nightmare, and the ferrari components are still, in public, beta testing.
     
  25. zsnnf

    zsnnf Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2003
    1,877
    Why do you think there is more novelty in the engineering? Please explain.

    In pictures the CGT looks cool. At the L.A. car show, in that color, with whatever those solar collector looking tubes in back were, To me, it was UGLY!! PERIOD

    The Enzo is hard to get used to, but in person, Awesome......

    Just MHO,
    Rick
     
  26. richard

    richard Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,394
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Richard Thompson III
    If you read Christophorus (the Porsche quarterly) they did a real big segment not too long ago about some of the engineering. It's completely marvelous the way they made the cars. They talk about all the details of the PCCC (clutch) designed for the car, which is rated to perform at 23,000RPM. They talk about how the new transmission allows them to position the engine that much lower and have an unprecedented center of gravity. They talk about the process used to cut out the carbon-fibre clutch components -- a beam of water under more than 40,000PSI pressure.

    Things like this mean that going high speed (they state this in the article as well) you can drop the car into reverse and it won't have any harsh effects on the transmission at all, because the components are so strong.

    There are lots of interesting things like this in the article, but the bottom line is that it is an engineering marvel and surpasses the Enzo in that respect very easily. If you ever have a chance to look at how the front suspension is set up, your jaw will drop ;)
     
  27. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
    4,363
    Maui
    Full Name:
    Allan
    Well, we could use the Stradale and Gt3 as an indicator! Porsche, there is no Substitute.
     
  28. Corsa

    Corsa Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    109
    Stockholm
    Full Name:
    Peter
    Enzo is pressed down with an amazing 785 kg of pure italian downforce at 300 km/h without any wings.
    Ferrari has 3 windtunnels and some expertise in that field.
    360 spent 5000 hours in windtunnels. Enzo probably more.
    I think high speed stability will be adequate for all of us...
     

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