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What's the Best Restoration Ever?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by modena1_2003, Jan 15, 2008.

  1. modena1_2003

    modena1_2003 F1 Rookie

    Aug 17, 2005
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    Jon
    For those of us who are not restoration experts and merely look at a NART car and think “Wow,” is there a Ferrari that embodies the “perfect” restoration?

    I know Pebble Beach picks and chooses and that those cars which have won in past years are prime candidates for this, however, in your eyes which model (S/N included) is the crème of the crop as far as restoration goes?



    Best,
    Jon
     
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  3. GTE

    GTE F1 Veteran

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    uhm... 4891GT?
     
  4. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    Jon,

    Set the criteria for best.

    Pebble Beach standards for the classics means that all the screw heads are aligned and the car is better than any manufacturer could ever possible make.

    The NCRS for Corvettes wants originality to the point that bad fits, wavy surfaces and overspray are intentionally preserved/recreated.

    Over restoration is a common battle cry of the preservationists. There is the story of the spyder/cabriolet restored years back where the left and right sides were made identical where the original car had left/right variations. There is also the 206S (SP?) that Bill Schwoer had rebodied with heavier gauge aluminum so it wouldn't get dented so easily.

    Jeff
     
  5. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    This is an interesting if unanswerable question. There are trends that take on a life of their own. I think the new Preservation Class at Pebble is an interesting one. Careful maintenance and cleaning as opposed to laser straight screw head alignment.

    Lets say you found a 40 year old Ferrari that had basically been stored for it's entire life. You gave it a gentle cleaning, changed the fluids, checked it over, changed the battery and hoses and put it on the Lawn.

    What would the Judges say?
     
  6. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
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    That it looked kinda rough.
     
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  8. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Exactly. Beautiful but rough.
     
  9. R33

    R33 Formula Junior

    May 7, 2005
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    Paul Creed
    Personally i fail to see how judges at pebble think that screw heads all pointing the same way and trims exactly gapped and proportioned makes a concours winning car.
    My view on it all is that, even if a panel or two had to be fabricated, and the trim and panels werent exactly uniform, the fact is that someone has taken the time, effort and money to preserve to their best ability what is and was a Classic race/road Ferrari and still available for the public to see and admire
     
  10. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    Yes, but Jim has an excellent point. Is showroom condition to be denegrated because it is not to a level beyond perfection?

    See this gets into that area between the NCRS "perfection" where manufacturing flaws are recreated and the Pebble Beach standard where even a mid level car is made into "how the factory could have perfectly made it if time and money were absolutely no object".

    If one were to take a totally one-off show car as displayed at Geneva, Turin, Tokyo or Detroit, where the car is the display of the manufacturer's or body builder's highest art to show to its peers, how will it stand the scrutiny of a Pebble Beach mentality where beyond perfection is the minimum?

    What is best is an evolving target. I am extremely familiar with 250LM 5909LM which is a former Pebble Beach winner (I kept the car for the then owner about 2 years after it won). It had restoration issues that would be point knock downs today (buffed fuel cells for one). Look at one of the recent Cavallinos where they showed pictures of original clamps in the 50s. A while back this would not have been a major restoration issue.

    The classics got into the aligned screw and bolt heads because after you get to perfection then only the meaningless details become the tie breakers.

    Jeff
     
  11. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    I enjoy seeing the car in whatever condition it may be. Ever seen a Ferrari from the 50s or early sixties that is stripped to bare metal - you can see the hammer head marks from when the fabricated the body. The Petersen Museum in LA had the ex-Agnelli 375 on display in its unrestored/decrepit state for a while. It was interesting to see this in condition and then later to see the fully restored.

    But you miss the competion of those jockeying for "my 100 points are better than your 100 points". Look at the field of Pebble that is what most of them are doing. The preservation class is a welcome development that allows display of cars that do not really need restoration or are significant in an of itself in its current condition. Even the full classics have embraced this concept - it is only original once.

    Jeff
     
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  13. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

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    I'm glad to see the trend of making different catagories. There's the "idolized" version with the screw heads aligned. These cars look nothing like the real thing did when new. While some call them "over-restored" it's still a viable genre and these cars can be quite beautiful is not exactly faithful.

    I personally prefer the "unrestored" cars that are correct in every way without having modern tolerences for fit and finish. These cars are how the originals would have looked when new.

    And then there's the drivers, that have nicks, some honest wear and real patina. My car is in this catagory and I think a repaint would take away from its beauty. I do have a few unobtrusive updates as a nod to driveability as I do actually drive my car; this would cost me points in a show which is too bad, because I enjoy shows and people would also enjoy the car despite not being 100% concourse.

    There's room for all kinds of standards IMHO.

    Ken
     
  14. solofast

    solofast Formula 3

    Oct 8, 2007
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    My personal preference is to see the old race cars in (approximately) the conditon that they were when they were raced in at the time. I don't want to see polished inside bodywork, perfect fits, and all of the screws aligned. That isn't what they were at any time in their useful lives. As noted above, they were pretty rough, but the objective was to go fast, and aligned screw heads were never part of that.

    I can see if you had an old 500 or TR, if you really loved the shape that you might want to make it perfect, since much of the beauty of these cars is in the lines and curves and they do look so much better with a perfect high gloss finish and no waves or distractions to take away from the beauty of the bodywork. In that case we are talking about the "art and beauty" factor, but not any kind of restoration. I do wish that the judges would look less for perfection and more for an accurate representation of what the car was. You only have an original once... After that it is just a restoration.
     
  15. texasmr2

    texasmr2 F1 World Champ
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    I personaly dont believe in restoring a classic Ferrari race car other than the item's that keep it driveable, too much character is lost imho. I would wanna be able to say "See this paint chip well this happened at the so and so race by this so and so driver".
     
  16. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Four Time F1 World Champ
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    An interesting but unanswerable question, like, "who is the most beautiful woman?", or "what is the most moving piece of music?", or "what is the most breathtaking landscape?"

    Jack.
     
  17. teak360

    teak360 F1 Veteran
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    Now there's a quotable statement.
     
  18. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

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    I think a car should be restored as close to humany possible to the day it left the factory.
     
  19. texasmr2

    texasmr2 F1 World Champ
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    I'm gonna stop by a shop next week to take photo's and have I got some resto pic's for yall !
     
  20. michael bayer

    michael bayer Formula 3

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    Napolis is on to something, sooner than we think, the world will, as they have in all other collectables, come to appreciate and higher value un-messed with cars over cars that have been Ralphed. All those knicks, dings and patina sum to a life well lived. And there will be so few left in that pure state........M
     
  21. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Here's where it gets interesting. Let's say you were able to buy a 40 year old Ferrari from it's original manufacturer 40 years after it was manufactured. She is as she was created. You clean her gently and wake her up and are now her first owner. Would you leave her as she was or start to use her? She has only factory test miles on her. Would you roll her on and off of trailers or would you drive her on the 1000 Kms, 9000 turns of the Giro d' Sicilia/Historic Targa Florio where her sisters ran many years ago and let the rocks fly where they may?

    I know what I would do...
     
  22. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Drive her until she begs you to stop!

    Jack
     
  23. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Clean her up. Change her fluids and drive her again...
     
  24. h2oskier

    h2oskier F1 Veteran

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    I think the judges should applaud and give it first prize. Didn't Leno just restore a Duesenberg this very way. Found it in a garage. Did what he had to to clean it and drive it down the street. I think that's what old cars should be like.
     
  25. targanero

    targanero Formula 3

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    Sadly, the enthusiast does not rule the Ferrari collector car market.
     
  26. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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    Actually, a car that wins PB has not really had a restoration. It has had a "perfectation". The car does not represent what it was when it was still new. It is a reflection of the lush setting and probably the lavish lifestyle of its owner.

    Sarcasm aside, I think Mike Reglia did a good job with the brown Lusso. It is very nicely done but it’s not over the top.

    john
     
  27. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    The best restoration ever ...

    ... to me means a car that has been pulled out a swamp and restored to perfect working order.


    I have seen some amazing vintage (like 30's) cars restored from bugger all left and it is a massive credit to the restorer that the completed car looks and works perfectly.

    Thus it is not so much as the end result as the required journey that I judge. Obviously the end result has to be good ... but just washing a perfect car is not the "best restoration" IMO.
    Pete
     
  28. michael bayer

    michael bayer Formula 3

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    Napolis: This will come as no surprise: I would drive it, often as as intended, each earned chip or ding a memory of some grand day with it. M
     

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