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Wheel loosing air - goop sealer application?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Paul_308, Oct 31, 2006.

  1. Paul_308

    Paul_308 Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2004
    2,335
    1980 GTBi stock 14" wheels changed to 16" stock factory QV wheels.

    According to local experts, the 16" x 7" front wheels are porous and loosing air. I bought the set off eBay from a wheel refinisher in San Jose who did an all too wonderful job of cleaning and repainting - I added new tires. My tire dealer and local wheel houses finds tiny bubbles at wheel body. The wheel men say working cast metal will only make it worse and perhaps lead to wheel failure. Tire men say inner tubes are a no-no with radials, added heat leads to failures.

    One wheel quit leaking badly but the other continues at about 1 psi / day I feel there should be a fix. Seems to me some type of goop could be brushed onto to the inner wheel which will at least slow down the leak to 1psi / week.

    Anyone have successful experience in this area?

    Incidently, the original 14" set is available.
     
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  3. Randy Forbes

    Randy Forbes Formula Junior

    Jul 14, 2006
    741
    Sarasota, FL
    Full Name:
    Sports Cars Plus,LLC
    Loctite makes a liquid used to seal porosity in welds; stands to reason that a similar substance would be available to treat the inside of your wheel(s).

    I would avoid anything like "fix-a-flat" as that just makes a mess out of both the wheel and tire (and balancing a nightmare too).
     
  4. Paul_308

    Paul_308 Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2004
    2,335
    Right, that stuff tends to stay liquid and centrifugal force sends it to the tire. I'm thinkging more of painting something onto the wheel and either waiting for it to dry or not so the air pressure will force it into the pores or the wheel casting.

    Just that I figure I have one shot at it. So experimenting with various goops is out which is why I'm looking for some experience here.
     
  5. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Feb 24, 2006
    14,302
    Cerritos, CA.
    Full Name:
    Mike
    It's funny you mention this cause one of my front wheel 16x7 from my 84 QV has a small pin hole and loosing 1lbs in about 2-3 days. Now since its just a pin hole, I was wondering if some kind of epoxy will or can fill the hole?
     
  6. DGS

    DGS Four Time F1 World Champ

    May 27, 2003
    41,988
    MidTN
    Full Name:
    DGS
    I think you guys just talked me out of buying a set of replica rims for winter tires.

    My factory rims with S03s lose about a pound in a *year*.
     
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  8. Eddie Cox

    Eddie Cox Rookie

    Oct 14, 2006
    43
    Goodlettsville, TN
    Full Name:
    Eddie Cox
    I have alot of experience with wheels losing pressure like you are describing. I know a guy who's business is all about restoring wheels back to factory. That line of work is all he does. Also the guy who sold you on ebay probably knew they were leaking from a small crack that is covered by the nice looking paint job. That is why you need to be real careful with ebay.
    Anyway, this guy's name is Rod Stucker. He is located in Nashville, TN which is where I am by the way. His cell number is 615-330-6926. He will tell you what you need to do. You can ship the wheels to him. He will fix it right and take care of any other problems associated with prior damage. You can also email him at: rod.kwicksilver@comcast.net. Tell him Eddie with Carsmart.net referred you. I think you will be happy with the result. Us Ferrari owners have plenty to worry about without having to keep pumping up the tires.
     
  9. NYCFERRARIS

    NYCFERRARIS Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2004
    999
    I have been where you are too many times....do not buy OEM mag 308 wheels on EBAY, I bought many sets and finally gave up...they know what they are selling these leaking wheels can't be fixed, I tried Valley Wire Wheel in SoCal, very expensive and didn't fix a thing, he sold me a very expensive radial inner tube as a fix and that promptly self destructed. every ez thing has been tried, jb weld, epoxy etc. once a leaker - always a leaker or worse, could have serious inner cracks, very dangerous. The more "pretty" a wheel looks on ebay the more concern you should have, sorry this is the way of the world , esp. when they know you will be using it in a high speed car and your life may depend on it...If you find a secure fix, let me know, I ahve been burned and would love to repair some of these wheels and use them.
     
  10. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 29, 2001
    17,268
    USA
    Full Name:
    Hugh G. Rection

    What would problems with oem 16" QV wheels that leak air, have to do with NEW reproduction 16" QV wheels?
     
  11. pad

    pad Formula 3

    Sep 30, 2004
    1,409
    Tequesta, FL
    Full Name:
    Paul Delatush
    You might want to contact Dayton Wire Wheel. They use some sort of silicone sealer in their wire wheels to make them tubeless. I, and many of my friends, have used Daytons on our E-type Jags for years without any problems.
     
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  13. DGS

    DGS Four Time F1 World Champ

    May 27, 2003
    41,988
    MidTN
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    DGS
    Sorry, I missed the part about "stock factory QV wheels".

    I was assuming that ebay wheels would be replicas, not real factory ones.
     
  14. Paul_308

    Paul_308 Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2004
    2,335
    Full story on the wheels, someone dropped them off at the refinisher and didn't pick them up. After the wheels were in storage for 4 years the refinisher consigned the set to eBay. I don't fault the refinisher...I tend to think the factory had some coating on the wheels which the refinisher thoroughly cleaned off.

    I will check with the Nashville fellow. I like to attend the Chet Atkins Society meeting each July and might be able to put the wheel in my luggage. In a way it is encouraging to hear that I'm not alone with this problem but although firing up my compressor is a minor nuisance it is a nevertheless a nuisance.
     
  15. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
    Full Name:
    Kenneth
    There's the implication that wheels that are porus enough to lose air may be unsafe due to structural weakness. If this is true, any sealer will not make them safer. My wheels are fine, but I would like to know what to do if I was losing one pound or so a week. Is any air loss like that grounds to scrap the wheel completely?

    Ken
     
  16. Randy Forbes

    Randy Forbes Formula Junior

    Jul 14, 2006
    741
    Sarasota, FL
    Full Name:
    Sports Cars Plus,LLC
    Don't forget, just a change in the ambient air temperature will have an effect on your tire's pressure.

    My (BMW) wheels hold their pressure perfectly, but each fall (like now) I still have to add a few pounds to get them back up to where they need to be.

    The newest set I had mounted, in August, were filled with Nitrogen instead of air. Nitrogen doesn't contain the moisture that "air" has, and is therefore not susceptible to the pressure increase when the tire's temperature rises.

    Now if you're consistently losing a pound a week, regardless of the season, that's a different story ;)
     
  17. NYCFERRARIS

    NYCFERRARIS Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2004
    999
    Ken,

    losing air per se is not unsafe but these old OEM mag wheels that are leaking air (through the casting! - not the tire seal or valve or due to temp. change) may need to be magnafluxed as well to fine internal cracks weaknesses... you won't belive the nerve that is sold on ebay... I got one wheel. looked beautiful..unreal redone, refinished etc. mounted my tire but the shop really was having a bear of a time blanacing it..the wheel "looked" gorgeous and did in fact hold pressure.... but something was very wrong.... I still can not belive it myself but upon futher inspection, are you ready, the wheel was from a wrecked or fire 308 ( most of the hard to find rear 8" width oem 16" wheels are from 308's with engine fires...you don't ever want to use a wheel subject to a engine fire) and the seller USED BODY BONDO to do a repair and make it LOOK great....Unreal, knowing he could have gotten someone killed .... and I paid top dollar at a ebay auction for this....get the aftermarket alum ones I guess would be the answer....I do have a good OEM set now but it was one scary and expensive and educational journey about getting there and I lost my faith in humanity (again). an ebay auction "AS IS" I guess means as is stated as teh cause of death on your death certificate....
     
  18. robertgarven

    robertgarven F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Feb 24, 2002
    5,095
    Ventura, California
    Full Name:
    Robert Garven
    I have daves old wheels and 1.25 other sets the .25 front I bought on ebay is gold and I started looking at it and it looks like it is not round but hey its gold. I agree a pinhole leak is not danderous unless it is poart of a crack
     
  19. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
    5,379
    NWA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    Its quite common for aluminum and magnesium to be porous. This is why the inside of rims are painted, as well as the outside, the paint seals the surface. Not only from air, but from chemicals absorbing into the surface.

    If your in doubt, have them checked for cracks. Then strip off the paint and repaint them inside and out with proper paint.

    The cars with 16's getting burned makes sense. They probably blow the money on wheels and neglect servicing the car.
     
  20. ZINGARA 250GTL

    ZINGARA 250GTL F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jun 21, 2002
    17,448
    PA
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    Ken
    Just a note to you fellows with the newer cars that have pressure sensors which show on your dash menu. If you use a tire sealer, you will destroy that feature---Forever!!! Don/t do it!
     
  21. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    74,279
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    Search for the paint spec, it was recently posted...and when I take them in I'm explicit NOT to strip the web......actually I do them myself and don't take them in...

    Napolis has also posted refinishing castings for the P4 so Sal knows the paint info as well.......

    HTH

    My tire guys won't work on a tire that's been 'gooped'.......the Dayton approach sounds best based upon where you are currently in the process..I'd give it a try before starting over......
     
  22. jimangle

    jimangle Formula 3

    Nov 5, 2003
    2,439
    Haverford
    Full Name:
    James
    If you put sealer in your tire it will wobble BADLY from 70mph and up. Before I found the crack in one of my rims I put a sealer in there, and it felt like the car was going to shake apart above 70mph. Under 70 it was fine. I'm ordering new rims soon.
     
  23. DMOORE

    DMOORE Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
    1,712
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Darrell

    +1


    It is common for Magnesium motorcycle racing wheels to be very porus even when brand new. This does not affect the safety of the wheel at all. Do a good repaint and you should be good to go.



    Darrell.
     
  24. driven

    driven Rookie

    Mar 23, 2005
    8
    NW PA
    Full Name:
    Jack Launtz
    I've read that nitrogen, in addition to the other benefits mentioned earlier, leaks at about 1/3 the rate of air--suposedly the nitrogen molecules are larger than air.

    Jack
     
  25. DMOORE

    DMOORE Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
    1,712
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Darrell
    It's true that there is less leakage with nitrogen. A lot of large trucking companies have gone this route also.

    Darrell.
     
  26. Perfusion

    Perfusion F1 Rookie

    Oct 16, 2004
    4,108
    Marietta, GA
    Full Name:
    Aaron
    Out of curiosity, which wheel shop in San Jose did you use? I only ask because I'm local, and it's always good to know the places in town that others have used...
     
  27. Paul_308

    Paul_308 Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2004
    2,335
    Magnafluxing only works on metals which can be magnatized such as iron, nickel, and cobalts...austenetic stainless is also a non-magnetic material. But I like your thinking anyway.
    Seems to me the interior of my wheels, although well cleaned and paint prepped, had only light overspray. But I'm probably just wishful here.

    Sure glad this wheel leak problem thread has come up for air (pun intended) again after a 3 month respite, with some new suggestions. One reason I'm pleased is I got a quote last week for a replacement wheel at $700 + s/h. choke/gag - already spent $1700 for the set of 4.

    So, I will have the local tire purveyor first water tank the holy rotary device and take pictures of the afflicted area (digital cameras are so great for casual pix) and remove the Eagle F1. I will then attempt additional paint, assuming a day where the humidity and temperature cooperate (in Feb?...LOL). Then a retreat to normality consisting of remount, retank, and repix. If God is displeased and no improvement is noted in the tire batismal, I will make yet another repeat using yet another suggested sealing material. Rather than throwing money at the problem, will try the moderately scientific approach. And post the before/after bubble result pictures.

    Should a generous coat of paint be required it on the interior of pretty wheels noted for porosity, it should be recognized and faq'ed because it's so danged easy to accomplish when the wheels are refinished. That's my opinion and it should be yours. (must be getting late)
     
  28. Philjay50

    Philjay50 Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2003
    594
    Chester, England
    Full Name:
    Philip
    I have had this problem a few times, and in all cases I have taken the tyres off, cleaned the inside well and painted with smooth Hammerite, problem solved.
     

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