News

when buying a used 360

Discussion in '360/430' started by robiferretti, Jun 8, 2004.

  1. robiferretti

    robiferretti F1 Rookie

    Oct 31, 2003
    3,252
    NYC area
    Full Name:
    rob ferretti
    My friend just had his odometer rolled back on his saturn, the guy who did that mentioned in conversation that he does atleast 1 360 a month. Keep that in mind when you pay a premium for a lower milage car.
     
  2. darth550

    darth550 Five Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jul 14, 2003
    58,584
    In front of you
    Full Name:
    BCHC
    Nice post on the internet! Names?????

    LOL!

    DL
     
  3. jbjavaheri

    jbjavaheri Karting

    Mar 4, 2004
    167
    West L.A.
    Full Name:
    Jason
    Is there a 100% bulletproof way of knowing whether or not the odometer of a car, or a Ferrari in particular, has been tampered with. Carfax doesn't seem 100% to me. Call the place where the car was serviced? Run the VIN, somewhere?
     
  4. 911Fan

    911Fan Formula 3

    Apr 15, 2004
    1,291
    Southern California
    "Is there a 100% bulletproof way of knowing whether or not the odometer of a car, or a Ferrari in particular, has been tampered with."

    Of course not!

    But you could minimize your risk by purchasing only from the original owner (ie, not through a dealer or subsequent owners) and checking out both the car and the owner in person. Obviously, you have to do a thorough review of the service records. If you're lucky, the seller will also have the fuel receipts with odometer readings which can be checked for consistency (ie, dates, accumulated miles, usage gaps, etc.).

    But in the end, you just have to rely on your gut feel about the seller and the car...

    Curiously, there might actually be a benefit in buying a rolled-back Ferrari -- you'll probably be buying a car in much better mechanical condition than a legitimate garage queen with the same mileage!
     
  5. jbjavaheri

    jbjavaheri Karting

    Mar 4, 2004
    167
    West L.A.
    Full Name:
    Jason
    Thanks. That's what I thought. As for the benefit, this could very well be true at times.
     
  6. Willis360

    Willis360 F1 Rookie

    Aug 4, 2001
    3,928
    Redmond, WA
    Full Name:
    Willis H
    One thing for sure, anyone buying my 360 will know exactly how many miles I put into the car. What's the point lying about it?
     
  7. robiferretti

    robiferretti F1 Rookie

    Oct 31, 2003
    3,252
    NYC area
    Full Name:
    rob ferretti
    the point in lying is you can put 15,000 miles on the car, then roll it back to 6,000 miles, the resale value is a lot higher when the major isn't looming. I dont know why people do, they just do. Thats why i would buy a higher milage one, atleast the guy is honest :)
     
  8. Tomf-1

    Tomf-1 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 17, 2004
    4,475
    Leawood KS/ South FL
    Full Name:
    Thomas
    In most cases, exterior and interior condition of the vehicle should reflect its mile usage. If a vehicle shows less than 3k but its condition (carpet, paint, wear&tear) is indicative of one w/ 30k...it's time to throw in the red flag and do a through due dilligence....
     
  9. Exoticbro

    Exoticbro Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    203
    St.Louis, MO
    Full Name:
    Chuck Ligon
    This subject has been beaten and whipped to death.(the high vs. low mileage debate).
    The reason people roll an odometer back is because mileage is the yardstick by which a value is placed on a car. The lower the mileage the higher the perceived value.
    There will always be buyers that put a premium on lower mileage cars and there are buyers who feel as long as the car has been maintained the mileage is not a huge deterrent.(both sides have sound reasons for their beliefs).
    The nice thing about Ferrari's is there are cars available to suit either buyer.

    I will say this robiferreti, I don't believe your friend is going to enhance the sales price of his Saturn enough to risk jail!!!
     
  10. robiferretti

    robiferretti F1 Rookie

    Oct 31, 2003
    3,252
    NYC area
    Full Name:
    rob ferretti
    I agree it was stupid to lease a saturn in the first place, but the buyout is $4,000 over what its worth blue book, and the overage charges would be in the same $4000 catagory, he just wants to dump the Piece of crap.
     
  11. Exoticbro

    Exoticbro Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    203
    St.Louis, MO
    Full Name:
    Chuck Ligon
    I understand his position, I had a Volvo leased, went over on miles, it would have cost me $4800 to give the car back. The thought never entered my mind to roll back the odometer.
    I still own the car.
     
  12. henryr

    henryr F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 10, 2003
    17,636
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Juan Sánchez Villa-L
    remind me never to buy anything from u guys
     
  13. Exoticbro

    Exoticbro Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    203
    St.Louis, MO
    Full Name:
    Chuck Ligon
    henryr,

    Explain your statement, in my case instead of paying $4800 to give the car back I bought it instead. My residual was just a little over mkt. value.
    I knew long in advance that I would be buying the car.
    My statement was I would not even consider rolling back the odometer to save the money.
    Thats why I ask you to explain your statement. as it pertains to me.

    Chuck
     
  14. W00dEar

    W00dEar F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Feb 24, 2004
    3,515
    LI, NY
    Full Name:
    Chris
    I would think on a car like Ferrari it should be hard to rollback/disconnect mileage without triggering some error log in ECU. Most modern cars has that feature now.

    I know on a NSX, there is no such a log, which means you can easily disconnect mileage, and re-connect whenever you want, with leaving any trace, even dealer will not know. They can only tell from your wear/tear.

    Going by serive records is useless. If I am screwing with mileage, I will make it legit every time I go for service, and make sure my service records shows normal 3-5k miles/yr when I am really putting 10-12k.
     
  15. Senna1994

    Senna1994 F1 World Champ

    Nov 11, 2003
    12,792
    San Clemente
    Full Name:
    Anthony Tonokaboni
    I have been in the same position, ended up buying the car. I think Henry was trying to be funny.
     
  16. henryr

    henryr F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 10, 2003
    17,636
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Juan Sánchez Villa-L
    chuck,

    not directed @ u. i should have put the emphasis on the fact that rolling back your odometer / representing your car as having lower mileage that actual is fraud. you've entered into a lease with clear terms and the fact that you have violated those terms and now do not wish to compensate the other party for damages does not change the situation.
     
  17. ART360

    ART360 Guest

    It's stealing. Taking money under false pretences. If you make a deal, you've got to stick with it, even if it costs you money. Better solution, read what you sign, and be prepared to deal with the consequences.

    However, if someone puts serious mileage on a Ferrari, you should be able to tell that the odometer has been screwed with. A car with 6k with torn up seats is usually a pretty go indicator that their is a problem, same thing with the windshield, too many pitts, mileage isn't accurate. Use a little common sense.

    Art
     
  18. Exoticbro

    Exoticbro Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    203
    St.Louis, MO
    Full Name:
    Chuck Ligon
    henryr,
    I agree with everything you say, my options were pay the $4800 or buy the car for the residual, I bought the car as it was the best option.

    Art55 is right also there are ways to tell if a cars mileage is accurate, however, some owners just seem to have a knack for putting a lot of miles on a car and the car still looks great.
     
  19. superyota

    superyota Formula Junior

    Mar 29, 2004
    349
    Newport Beach
    I dont know how people sleep at night knowing that you screwed someone by rolling back the miles....Is it really worth the extra money to have the bad Karma? Not to me...I would rather work harder, make more money the right way and tell the truth......oh, did I mention it is a Federal Felony? No wonder there is so many low milage 360's around. my $.02
     
  20. Ade

    Ade Formula 3

    Jan 31, 2004
    2,095
    UK
    Guys, guys.... surely all you have to do is plug in the good 'ol SD2 on a 360. That thing tells you a good estimate of clutch wear, hold detailed information on average revs the engine has obtained over a period of time, all kind of stats. Way better than on a 355 anyhoo.

    I'm SURE the SD2 will go mental if the odometer is turned back. How would it be able to resolve many of the statistical calculation? surely some of them are based on mileage.

    Just a thought
    Ade
     

Share This Page