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Where did Dave Rocks go?

Discussion in '348/355' started by PaulK, May 6, 2019.

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  1. Natkingcolebasket69

    BANNED

    Well at the end of the day it will get better. People that appreciate him and his business will still reach out to him and he just won’t be on this forum.
    Moderating is not easy and even though this forum is amazing Ferrari owners in my opinion tend to be overall difficult peeps to deal with so kudos to u all;)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  2. flat_plane_eddie

    flat_plane_eddie Formula 3
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    Mar 30, 2013
    2,252
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    Eddie
    Dave is an incredibly knowledgeable guy and his refinishing services are supposedly the best from what I've heard and I don't doubt that.

    However, I was turned off of him as a person after noticing he always had it for me since I supported one of his competitors (Lorenzo). I never talked **** on his threads or about him because I respect his knowledge and work. But anything I would say that would give him even an inch to say something contrary to what I said, he'd take that up. It became quite obvious after sometime and annoyed me, like some grade school ********.

    There's also the time he sent some of his fanboys to attack one of Lorenzo's threads where he was promoting a product. They blatantly disregarded the forum rules there and their posts were deleted. But who does that kind of petty stuff? Just very lame in my opinion. Focus on promoting your business in a positive way, you're already the best at it but here you are using some lame tactics against someone who does a fraction of your business and isn't even really a competitor.
     
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  3. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Jun 14, 2011
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    Tim Dee
    I just don't see any good from this thread at all.
    As an employer for over 40 years I would never allow any of my managers to talk bad about any ex employee, manager or customer even in a closed door meeting much less a public forum.

    Choosing the high road showing dignity seems to be a lost trait today.

    I'm extremely sad this happened and the best thing forward, all posts should be deleted about this subject.

    Never judge a person unless you walked a mile in their shoes.


    XOXOXOX :(
     
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  4. itsablurr

    itsablurr Formula Junior
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    Dec 9, 2005
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    Matt
    Wow, that's a bit nuts. As evidenced by past (less drama-filled) dialogue established over time, Dave appears by all accounts to be a nice and agreeable guy, however when faced with an opposing position or adversarial situation, can be consumed with an obsessive need to be right. If that is what happened in this case, to the degree described, then the ban is certainly warranted.
     
  5. steved033

    steved033 Formula 3
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    Apr 12, 2017
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    Steve D.
    I see what you did there...

    sjd
    ...if only someone could get rid of the stickyness...oh...
     
  6. 97 Spider

    97 Spider Formula 3
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    Not quite, $2500 is the minimum to be a sponsor, Dave was paying much more than that.
     
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  7. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    6,885
    So it wasn't spam; he was over the limit by cross posting to various threads but you could have turned them back on two at a time. If ultimately they are all going to be there, and don't disappear, just what's the difference if he started all the threads in one day or started 2 threads with a suitable time interval between for whatever time period it would take to generate all the threads. You end up with all the threads in all the different forums. And how many members would even know there were multiple threads? Looks to me that it got personal and a decision was made that has damaged Ferrari Chat. You lost a sponsor and have members questioning the action. You effed up.
     
  8. kenneyd

    kenneyd Formula Junior
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    Sep 30, 2014
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    Ken
    Dave was a huge, valuable resource here. The vast majority of his threads/post had nothing to to with his business, they were about helping others, which is what message forums like this are (well, "were "actually) for.
    I have been an active member of all kinds of forums for decades. It used to be about members with a common interest getting together and sharing info and helping each other (soo cool). This has changed over the past several years as nearly all forums have prioritized their purpose to the maximization of monetization.
    But you know what? Its their site, and they have every right to do that.
    Just like we have the right to find a new site if we deem necessary.
    As administrators, they needs to balance their actions otherwise they can push members to other sites.
    While one sponsor expulsion might not have an impact, many have noticed a trend, such as the new rules for classified.
    They made these rules to curtail the few members who sell 1000s of items for a living here, at the expense of the vast majority who are just trying to buy/sell a few items when we upgrade a part etc. I got popped for selling an item with several related parts, they said i had to make individual threads for each component that all counted toward my 5 ads/yr limit. All the parts were from the same thing
     
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  9. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Owner Miami 2018

    Dec 1, 2000
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    Rob Lay
    No, same time different forums you still get spam effect...
    1. New Posts functionality that around half of users utilize.
    2. Main Forum page still showing last thread.
    3. Users hopping their favorite forum.
    I know at this point you are just supporting your friend Dave arguing to argue attempting to hurt me or FerrariChat, but the most simple fact is Dave broke guidelines every sponsor has and he couldn’t accept it. He shot his own foot.
     
  10. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
    Global Moderator Owner Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
    33,286
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    Dave
    I think you're getting a little tangled up here, when it's really simple.

    Sponsors and members alike are not supposed to spam the board. Dave spammed the board. I removed the extra posts, explained to him why, and then he objected, fairly strenuously, to my action. I asked him to go to Rob at that point and I would do whatever Rob told me to. After that it was out of my hands.

    Why, you ask, did we bother? Well, because if each sponsor spammed 7 forums everyday, we'd be buried in advertising, or in this case requests for positive reviews, and the other content (from the members) would be hard to find, to say the least. We worked to get Dave to understand we were protecting his interest, along with the other sponsors, when we enforce this guideline. He did not, in my opinion, seem willing to acknowledge that, or that we had deleted other sponsor spamming in the past. He believed that we were singling him out for spamming. We were not.

    It was suggested that he could make the posts over a longer time period, I don't recall exactly, but I don't think he was keen on that, either.

    If it got personal, that was after I was finished trying to get Dave to understand the spamming guidelines and how they relate to all of the sponsors and members here. It is our opinion that sponsors don't do themselves any favors by spamming the board with ads, or personal requests like Dave posted. We think it casts them in a bad light, and that is part of our motivation in helping them to stay within the limits. The rest is to be fair to all the sponsors by not having one sponsor dominate with his posts.

    D
     
    JL350 likes this.
  11. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
    Global Moderator Owner Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
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    Dave
    At this point, I think I've fully explained my motivation and actions in the StickyRx situation. If anyone needs further clarification, please shoot me a PM with your question and I'll try to answer as best I can. But for this thread? I'm out.

    D
     
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  12. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    I believe most non-haters will recognize that FerrariChat has continued “best in class” practices as other forums like those purchased by Vertical Scope have increased commercial exposure at the expense of the user community. We haven’t increased the ad spots and we’ve continued to enforce rules like Sponsors have to limit threads at once as not to appear spammy and hurt the user experience. I’m glad you agree with our approach and the tough decision to put the community above monetization.
     
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  13. Roth

    Roth Formula Junior

    Apr 1, 2016
    375
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    Pepsi Generation
    Sometimes the side shows are more entertaining than the main attraction. Had to read all 4 pages to see what the main attraction was all about. I’m disappointed.

    Fchat is a fantastic place for Ferrari owners to share and solve issues. It’s part of a two sided equation. The other side are the members. There plenty of experienced folks here. But let’s be humble. No matter how knowledgeable. No matter how much the contribution, every input is a drop in the bucket and no single drop is greater than the sum of all the drops in the bucket. If this logic we want to prove wrong, we will never succeed.


    Sometimes friendship makes us blind. We place greater emphasis on loyalty over right and wrong. This thinking more than not does more bad than good to a friend in need. We end up digging a deeper hole he will never able to climb out. The best thing we can do is appeal to the authority having jurisdiction. Down play the situation. Give all parties room to wiggle. Instead we are doing the opposite. The back channel communication, the “he said she said” solidify the involved parties position. It has now become a win, loose or draw high stake situation. At this point it’s too hard to undo.
     
  14. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 Rookie
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    Fchat has every right to enforce their rules and guidelines that are clearly laid out to all sponsors. I think the suggestion Rob made to post over a period of time is fair. Whether or not it seems logical should be up for debate for another time. If it is effectively the same, then one can argue why Dave should even have a problem with it. Maybe he needed google reviews by a certain deadline or he felt singled out. That's fine, but those are his own issues and it seems it was ultimately his decision to escalate things. He got his chance to speak to the highest authority about the matter and they still couldn't see eye to eye.

    An organization either has rules or it doesn't. If one doesn't feel the rules are fair to those involved in the game, one can chose not to play the game. But keep in mind everyone in the game is applicable to the same rules.

    Going back to my earlier analogy, you can't argue a speeding ticket if you went pass the speed limit and your only reasoning is others went faster than you and weren't caught. Ok.. you can argue it, but don't expect a different result. The system isn't going to fall apart for you. Let the moderators who work for free handle discrepencies moving forward.
     
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  15. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie
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    haha. Rob made me think of this when he said “haters”. haha.

    So I want to say a couple things.
    1) If I were a mod, I probably wouldn’t have reacted to Dave’s “spam” post. Yes I get it, but a sponsor who also contributes greatly to the board in general outside of just being a sponsor in my opinion maybe deserves to be cut a little slack. Yes rules are rules but judgement calls are judgement calls.

    2) I think it’s actually a nice thing that Rob and dm_n_stuff actually took the time here to talk all of this out. Transparency. Honestly, while I disagree with the “first shots fired” from the moderators, what this ended up being was probably way overkill from Dave (I don’t know him at all outside of his posts here).....pissing off the CEO with bluster and attitude? It starts to spin wildly out of control and then the business has no choice. I can totally see that. Point being, I think it’s a nice thing for Rob and DM to take the time to explain. Thank you gentlemen.
     
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  16. GatorFL

    GatorFL Moderator
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    Nov 18, 2005
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    Duane
    I've been here a long time too and I can't remember a similar thing happening to a sponsor. It's a sad story really, the initial offense was only the beginning. I was a bystander to this but Dave (dm_n_stuff) Rob and parent company CEO spent a lot of time on this one.
     
  17. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium Formula Junior
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    Jul 28, 2018
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    Eric
    We don't know what happened so crafting an analogy in support of one side or the other is a fools errand.

    Following your speeding ticket analogy... Getting a speeding ticket when you weren't speeding simply because the poliece person did not like how you looked at him.

    Is that just? Now what? Perhaps the proletariatas not posting defense on one side or the other based on conjecture is the best course here.




    Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  18. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    Rob Lay
    this is ridiculous, I agree there isn't 100% of the story out there from either side as Dave is banned and we're not releasing private communications. that said anyone with a 80 IQ can figure 90% of the story out. even the friends of Dave have now transitioned to arguing our guidelines for all sponsors should have been different, Dave shouldn't have been held to same standards as other sponsors as he does "extra" for the community, or Dave was just having a really bad day and should be excused for that.
     
  19. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 Rookie
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    My analogy was based on the story told here, which doesn't seem to be refuted. However, I am sure there are more details to the story that have not surfaced.

    Your analogy implies no rules were broken. Mine does. Anyone here refuting Dave broke rules?
     
  20. PaulK

    PaulK F1 Rookie
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    Wow, I had no idea this thread was going to get this far this fast. I reached out to Dave last night and pretty much pleaded with him to at least be open to coming back, but he felt things were too far gone. It is really quite sad. I know Rob Lay and Dave M. to be fair people, along side Dave L... Sometimes things like this just happen I guess.
     
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  21. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 Rookie
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    So what's the involved party's position here?

    Dave L - "I'm not coming back" ?? or "I'll come back if..."

    Rob Lay - "Dave can come back if he can work things out with the CEO" ?

    CEO - "I don't want Dave back" ? or "Dave can come back if... "
     
  22. jjtjr

    jjtjr Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2016
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    john truskowski
    I really hope Dave and the managers of this site can someday reach common ground maybe after some cool down time. I (as many others here), will miss the input from Dave. He is definitely an enthusiast for the 355 like many here, and this forum is a treasure chest of technical information for anyone who owns one of these.
     
  23. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    Rob Lay
    there's no chance, I don't want to get into details of that though, as I can't talk about it. has to do with Dave's letter writing campaign just so users don't think its for anything else.
     
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  24. taz355

    taz355 F1 Rookie
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    Feb 18, 2008
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    I think hes busy enough he does not care. word of mouth from dealers is starting to take off and hes having to hire more people
    This was and still is a passion of Daves vs a buisness for now.
     
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  25. boxcarracer

    boxcarracer Formula Junior
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    Jul 29, 2005
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    Luigi
    I think we can all agree that the new classified rules suck here.
    Forums are dying, it's a shame.
     
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