Which drivers do you think are OVER-rated?

As usual you are stating your opinion rather than facts. The only time McLaren ever declared a number one driver was at the point of the season when only one driver had a mathematical chance of winning.

The only driver Senna ever vetoed on his team was Derek Warwick at Lotus in 86 because he didn't feel Lotus could field two competitive cars at the sametime. He knew this from working with DeAngelis in 85. Prost vetoed Piquet who could have got the McLaren seat in 88. Prost also stipulated in his Contract the "NO SENNA CLAUSE" at Williams in 93, and left in 94 because it was only good for one year.

McLaren, allowed Coulthard to race MH fair and square.

Don't let your opinions out weigh the facts.

 

Yes.
Here a few shots from that weekend: Senna in the Toleman, Prost and Lauda around the harbour, Lauda going into St. Devote and the s/f line.

PS: It hurts going through some of these pictures when you see Giacomelli, Bellof, Alboreto Winkelhock, Senna and De Angelis.

 

How do you know?, are you mates with Ron Dennis?

This I believe (so it is 100% my opinion) is simply what McLaren say to us ... inside Ron Dennis's head he knows that Coulthard will never really do the business, thus effectively they have a number 1.

You do not know the facts, only what we are told ... are you normally this naive?

Pete
ps: BTW IDIOT, I never said it was fact, I even stated and I quote myself:

Man some of you guys really need to pull your head out of your pompus (sp?) arses and get a life. This is a chat site, opinions is what we are after and discuss ...

 

First off, I did not call you any names. But I have noticed by reading your posts that you don't know much about F1. How do you know wheter or not am friends with Ron Dennis or not? Second you are the same person that claimed that every McLaren from 1982-1994 was an evolution of a Barnard Car. What a joke.

Before you start calling People things why don't you learn a little about the Technical Aspects and the History of F1.

 

I could waste my time and retype everything you just did or I could just say well said and leave it at that. Well except the part about Prost and Senna, although in my opinion I rate Schumacher higher they were both great drivers without question.

 

WOW! That was quite a post! BTW I wouldn't mind seeing Schumacher and Ferrari beat up on the field for a few more years. I know it won't last forever so I will enjoy it while I can.

 

If I am not mistaken isn't it true Senna wanted to drive for Ferrari but was hoping they would get their act together before he made the jump.

 

Look, I'm a opinionated Kiwi who does not like Murray ... is it against the law to exaggerate?. Have you no sense of humour, or are you a lawyer or something?.

Everybody knows that almost every year the new car (when it finally starts racing) is a new design, that will probably have very few if any parts from the last years car.

BTW I am very well read and knowledgeable on F1, but I also do not believe just because McLaren or any other team says that they do not use team orders (until they want to) or have a number 1 driver, that that is fact. When McLaren made a big deal about this, Ferrari had just got its wrist slapped by the public, and thus Ron was adding fuel to the fire.

Now this is all just my opinion, nothing is fact. Nothing especially on an internet chat site should ever be taken as fact ... and quite frankly Senna1994 your last post pissed me off. I never, ever said I was quoting fact, and you also have replied stating what you think are 'facts', but they are not.

Unless you are Ron Dennis and for once telling the public the truth (which he is 100% entitled not too, as we do not matter) then it is just your opinion, just as it is mine.

I do appoligise for calling you an idiot, not mature from my side, but I had pointed out that it was just my thinking, and then you get all high and mighty and start ramming your OPINIONS down my throat.

If you do not like me Senna1994, put me on your ignore list, many other posters chat with me lots so I will not miss you ... and I am sure you will not miss me.

Pete
ps: Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

 

My understanding pizzadude, is that Senna was approached around the same time that Ferrari 'obtained' Prost. I believe that they got quite close to having Senna drive a Ferrari. I'm not sure though that Senna would have been able to pull Ferrari out of the also rans ... but then look what he did in a Toleman and Lotus.

Senna would have been a wise man to have stated that he wanted them to get their act together first.

Note: for Senna1994's sake, this is simply what I remember, and may be wrong ... please do not sue

Pete

 

I think you're right, although who knows in retrospect how much of that was real or just more of the usual rumor mill. If you look back over the years, think about how many drivers were slated by confirmed sources to go to various teams (particularly Ferrari) but never did.

 

Thanks for the info Pete
Fred

 

Pete, no worries I didn't mean to jump down you throat either. This forum is for different opinions and I have always respected yours from my previous postings.

I understand you have a problem with Murray, but he actually only submitted the basice concept for the 1988 MP4/4 which the actual work was done by Steve Nichols. After Steve left for Ferrari with A. Prost, Neil Oately took over design as Murray by 89 was firmly on the Car Side to begin the design work for what eventually became the McLaren F1.

As someone who knew Ayrton, I can tell you that he was approached by Ferrari in 90 and through the successive years. His biggest mistake was that he didn't leave McLaren at the end of 91. He always wanted to drive for Ferrari and he said he eventually would have gone there in 96 when his Williams contract was up. Jean Todt and Luca tried to get him instead of Berger in 93 but he didn't want to expend the effort as he wanted to first drive for Williams.

In 94, Ayrton was in his opinion driving better than at anytime in his career. If you remember he won 5 races with a Customer Ford HB in the back of his McLaren that was 100 hp down to the Williams Renault and about 50 down to Schumachers Benetton in 1993. Unfortunately in the beginning of 1994 Williams had forgotten how to design a Passive car that worked on a bumpy track (they would fix this by mid season) and not just in a Wind Tunnel.

Nevertheless Ayrton put it on Pole 3 times (destroying Hill in qualifying). In Brazil he lost the lead to Schumacher in the Pit Stops and was cutting the gap to him when the back end of his car stepped out and he spun. In Aida he was on Pole again and got hit at the first corner by Hakkinen. Then came Imola where again he started from Pole, what the news does not mention is that Ayrton died on the 7th lap but he did the 3rd fastest race lap on his 6th lap with full fuel. Schumacher and Hill did go a bit faster at the end of the race with extremely low fuel. Many people think that it was cold tires, but something that the prosecution missed and Patrick Head said at the time of the crash is very important. The Power Steering fluctuated at the middle of Tamburello and that is what most likely caused him to go off. It is unfortunate that as race fans we missed what would have been a great battle in 94 between Senna and Schumacher. Just imagine what the next 5 years would have been like.

Anyway my 2 cents, no harm no foul, we are all passionate about our favorite racers.

 

Dude I was just trying to set up some ideas to debate about. If we all Love MS there's not much to talk about.

If you really want to kick me in the ball sack give me your address and I'll come to your house so we can talk. I"m betting you'd rather just type on the computer and tune it down a bit next time. Its not nice to be so rude.

I based my ideas on my past sports experience. I won the Florida Power lifting title for 4 years in a row. My last year I won because the only guy that stood a chance of beating me got sick. I won the first three years because I was hungry and I wanted it more then the others did (plus I was lucky no one was stronger). The 5th year I dropped out because too many people started using drugs, technology I refuesed to embrace, and I felt the sport had shifited from talent to technology.

All sports will always have something to do with timing and the strength of the competition, and the technology/talent ratio. That was my only point about MS and his streak of 6 wins. I hope F1 is more competitive this year...it would be more fun to watch.

Now play nice

You like to watch F1 on TV
I like to watch F1 on TV
Maybe you've watched more TV then I have, but you don't have to be rude about it.

 

"go ahead, of me, so I, can, kick you square in the ball sack." I thought that was kinda funny. Trying to lighten the mood a little. You may have more muscle than me, but can you use it? I've been playing football since I was five. I can move people in a hurry. But it's all good.
Here read this:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=247902&perpage=30&pagenumber=1

 

"I was just trying to set up some ideas to debate about"
Almost all of it was inaccurate.

But I stepped across a line I normally can't even see {it being so far in front of me}. So here's to forgotten posts.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Golf is my game of choice now. If you are just being funny, I'm cool with that

 

Okay lets shake hands and move on

Yes I can only but imagine what an on form Senna versus's a getting better MS would have been like. Just fantastic!!!

I very much appreciated Senna's awesome ability when he raced, I just feel since he has passed away that it has got a little out of hand ... and I have to admit that I was always a bit of a Prost fan. Both were very good!

Regarding Murray, I do have a little bit of, I suppose tall poppie, dislike of the man. I respect his ability but I am sick and tired of hearing about it ... and also every article I have ever read that he has written reads very much like a preacher telling all the idiot readers how it should have been done (probably a bit like my posts read ... oops).

Pete

 

Good Pete, nice to put that behind us. I also consider Prost one of the greatest drivers of all time, he had some incredible teammates and did a great job against them all (Arnoux, Lauda, Rosberg, Mansell, Alesi, Hill).

I understand why you mean about Murray, he does think he is god sometimes.
Cheers none the less.

Tony

 

I think it was more than a rumour. The movie "La Passione" even puts Senna in a Ferrari with Enzo standing behind the car. Ok, just a movie, but still. At last year's Continental collectables event I saw a picture with Senna at the factory or something like that.
Also if you read the stories about his life it sounded like he really wanted to drive for Ferrari at some point. Maybe his plan was a couple years with Williams equaling Prost's 4 WC titles and then move to Maranello.

 

I seem to remember Senna saying himself that he wanted to drive for Ferrari at some time in the future. I'm sure that he wouldn't have found the idea attractive in 1996 when Ferrari were far from competitive. Senna was definately a driver who looked for the best team at the time, rather than building a team up.
Anyway, I voted for DC as in my opinion he can't drive sheep!

 

Ayrton, was interested in matching Fangio's 5 titles, after that he didn't care how fast or slow the Ferrari was, he wanted to drive it in his final season"s". By the time he was at Williams he was 34, like Schumacher is today, he did not want to go through what he had been through at Lotus. Schumacher originally didn't want to go to Ferrari either, Willi Weber convinced him that he was still young enough and had a team that would do whatever he wanted too. Good for Michael he did a great job and has been the best driver over the last decade. The only driver who I felt was a bit quicker than Michael in qualifying the last 10 years was Hakkinen, however, Michael still had the edge over Mika in the races.

 

Agree, as that's precisely what Rossi has set out to do in MotoGP. But Micheal's in it for the money these days so I dunno how you'd get him changing unless he did some deal with sponsors.

David

 

I think Mark Weber is in F1 for the right reasons and I think he is pulling Jaguar up ...

Pete