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Who owns who? Fiat Ferrari GM?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by DanSSull, Jul 13, 2004.

  1. DanSSull

    DanSSull Rookie

    Jul 13, 2004
    1
    My friend and I were arguing over this, and I want to know for sure. Who owns who? I believe that Fiat controls Ferarri, and Fiat is under 20% ownership of General Motors, but General Motors does not own Ferrari does it? Please help me out! Beautiful board, matches the cars I suppose.

    Any links with answers would be great. Thanks.
     
  2. tifosi

    tifosi F1 Veteran
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    Sep 5, 2001
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    its convoluted but GM does have a stake in Fiat, not directly in ferrari
     
  3. ASG 86TR

    ASG 86TR Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2001
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    Ferrari, Maserati, and Alfa are part of a group that Fiat owns in whole, but is not the same group as Fiat's general automotive group. GM does have the option (can be forced by Fiat) to purchase a large chunk of Fiat Auto Group, but not the group that has Ferrari.
     
  4. henryr

    henryr F1 World Champ
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    i believe fiat spun out ferrari to a italian investment bank and the ferrari family retained its 10% ownership.
     
  5. Erik330

    Erik330 Formula Junior

    May 8, 2004
    667
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    Fiat no longer owns a controlling interest in Ferrari, I believe that they are down to 40% or so. Ferrari stock was floated on the markets within the past two years and the public owns 58% and Piero Lardi Ferrari owns a couple of percent.

    If I'm correct (and I'm going from memory, not google), GM (which has a stake in Fiat) owns an interest in Ferrari through their Fiat ownership, but neither do they control Fiat nor does Fiat control Ferrari.

    The public ownership of Ferrari should be of some concern. If the shareholders want profits, dividends, and a rising stock price, spending a gazillion on F1 may no longer be practicable.
     
  6. detltu

    detltu Karting

    Nov 2, 2003
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    David Taylor
    GM does own a sizeable stake in Fiat. They were supposed to take a controlling interest as well but are trying to wiggle their way out of it. Part of the deal was that Ferrari did not come with the deal perhaps as ASG 86TR said it.
     
  7. Simon

    Simon Moderator
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    Aug 29, 2003
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    "Fiat Auto" and "Ferrari" are two seperate companies owned by the parent company "The Fiat Group". The Fiat Group consists of everything from Car manufacturers , football teams, bank, pension companies and fashion houses.

    GM has a share in Fiat Auto and likewise Fiat Auto has a share in GM. It was part of a deal working together to develop engines, mostly for the European Market (non-US anyway).

    Thats the simple version...from a FIAT employee

    Cheers
    Simon
     
  8. an032nv

    an032nv Formula Junior

    Jul 5, 2004
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    Chris Torosian
    GM owns 20% of Fiat Auto
    Fiat Auto owns Ferrari-Maserati
    Ferrari-Maserati are sister companies, one doesn't own the other
    GM has no control over Ferrari-Maserati, just help Fiat get back on it's feet

    That is how I understood it
     
  9. WCH

    WCH F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 16, 2003
    5,179
    As many different answers as there are replies ... quite amusing really. Misinformation and confusion.

    When I looked into this several months ago, the best I could determine was that Fiat's holding company still owned 56% of the Ferrari Maserati Group; Maserati is a wholly owned sub of Ferrari; Ferrari is separate from Fiat Auto, which owns Alfa, Lancia and other marques; Pierro Ferrari still owns 10% of Ferrari; and the remainder of Ferrari is owned by investors, including Mediobanco (sp). When I have time, I'll update the research - of course, there are folks here who know for sure ... and I have absolutely no sources other than public info, so I could be wrong.

    As for Fiat and GM, this also may be out of date, but provides some background:

    " MASTER AGREEMENT:

    In March 2000, Fiat swapped a 20 percent stake in its Fiat
    Auto unit, comprising the Fiat, Lancia and Alfa Romeo brands,
    for 5.1 percent of GM stock, worth $2.4 billion at the time.

    The agreement gave Fiat the right to sell the remainder of
    Fiat Auto to GM from 2004 to 2009 at "fair market value".
    On the day of the transaction GM shares were trading at just
    under $78 and Fiat at 35.5 euros. Currently, GM shares trade at
    about $41.80 and Fiat at around 6.60 euros.



    RECAPITALISATION

    After mounting losses at Fiat Auto and the downgrading of
    the Italian group's debt by credit rating agencies, Fiat in
    February 2003 announced a five-billion euro recapitalisation of
    its car unit but GM declined to put up its one billion euro
    share, diluting its stake to 10 percent.

    Fiat put up three billion euros by cancelling some of Fiat
    Auto's debts to other parts of its robotics-to-components
    empire, which GM says breaks a clause of the Master Agreement
    preventing any transactions with Fiat affiliates "except on an
    arm's length basis".

    Fiat said in March it hoped to avoid ever forcing GM to buy
    the rest of the car unit, a position reiterated by top
    management recently.



    NEW AGREEMENT:

    The put option now runs from Jan 24, 2005 to July 24, 2010.

    The companies will not start legal proceedings against each
    other about the Master Agreement until Dec 15, 2004.

    Until then, they will try to renegotiate the agreement.

    Fiat believes the put option is still "effective and
    exercisable".

    GM alleges the sale of Fiat's consumer credit arm Fidis and
    the capital increase of Fiat Auto Holdings constitute breaches
    of the Master Agreement and entitle GM to terminate it and the
    put option.



    FIAT SELLS OUT

    In December 2002, Fiat sold its entire stake in GM for about
    $1.16 billion, a move that helped the Italian group meet
    debt-cutting targets agreed with its creditor banks.

    The two carmakers said the sale would not affect the put
    option or the joint ventures."
     
  10. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    Any updates on the current state of ownership of Ferrari or where things are going? Thanks.
     
  11. andrewg

    andrewg F1 Rookie
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    Looks like Ferrari will go public within the next 18 months....curently owned by FIAT Auto (55%) The Ferrari family (10%) and Mediobanca (35%)
     
  12. Westworld

    Westworld Two Time F1 World Champ
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    May 18, 2004
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    Why do I fear this will be the downfall
    of Ferrari?
     
  13. cavallino33

    cavallino33 Formula Junior

    Jul 10, 2005
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    Jeff
    I'm worried too.
     
  14. joker57676

    joker57676 Two Time F1 World Champ

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    I for one will try to acquire a few of the shares if this happens so I can own a very tiny part of Ferrari since I am only a student and cannot afford any of the cars I love yet. Call it dumb, but thats how much I love ferrari.
     
  15. MrApex

    MrApex Formula 3

    Jun 4, 2004
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    Wasn't there a recent buy-in to Ferrari from a Middle Eastern royal? If memory serves me correctly, I believe he bought 5% of the company?
     
  16. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

    Apr 28, 2004
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    Dr.Stuart Schaller
    Ferrari has been run as a playtoy for for many years. They make money, but even after financial contributions from various sponsors, a substantial amount of money is spent on auto racing.
     
  17. whart

    whart F1 Veteran
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    Dec 5, 2001
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    Herr Prof.
    It was explained to me this way: We were about to embark for a Greek isle when a well-travelled friend told me, you will be approached by many different people as you disembark from the boat, all urging you to stay at their hotel or this or that inn, but the fact is, that they are all inter-related, by blood, marriage, contract or otherwise, and thus, to give business to one is to give business to all of them. In short, as my friend explained, "it's all one big corporation."
     
  18. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    Nov 2, 2003
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    Jaz
    Ferrari goe's public hear come's 10,000 unit's annual production.Pressure to perform financially will in turn lead to increase in production. Look at Porsche it keep's on growing and so doe's it's stock. I can imagine ten year's from now Ferrari launching a direct competiter to the 997 or whatever designation the car has then.
     
  19. normhuff

    normhuff Formula Junior

    Dec 14, 2003
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    J. Norman Huff, Esq.
    Still waiting to hear news about the new Ferrari 'You Pay What We Pay' campaign...
     
  20. trashidelek!

    trashidelek! Formula Junior

    Nov 18, 2004
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    That is going to have you feeling like the the Maytag repair man...
     
  21. 308geo

    308geo F1 Rookie

    Nov 13, 2002
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    So Ferrari stock is "set to go public within 18 months" or "Ferrari stock was floated on the markets within the past two years and the public owns 58%"

    So which is it? I would love to buy a few shares. :)
     
  22. Westworld

    Westworld Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Is Porsche a public company? I though they grew to avoid being gobbled up by a big corporation.
     
  23. henryr

    henryr F1 World Champ
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    the stock is publicly traded but the voting shares are closely held.
     
  24. joker57676

    joker57676 Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Speaking of Ferrari stock, are there any stock brokers on here that might be able to give us a prediction on what they would expect it to do performance wise. Just curious.

    Mark
     
  25. trevi

    trevi F1 Rookie
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    May 19, 2003
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    that's wrong, Simon is correct.
     

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