Why are clutches on exotics replaced at such low mileages?

I hear that. Oddly enough, the thing I have the most trouble with so far in the Ferrari is the gated shifter, not the clutch/throttle interplay. I try to only leave the clutch disengaged and the car in 1st when I think I might need it. Once about 6 years ago, I had just stopped at a yellow light when I heard tires screeching behind me. The car was in gear, I nailed it, and made hard left turn. When I looked back, the car behind me had stopped 25 ft into the intersection.

 

Try this: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/automatic-transmission.htm

 

The wear theory of leaving it in neutral with the clutch out at a stoplight may not be true on a car with a non-synchro first.

About the only way I know to do this without a gear grind is to declutch from the neutral, take a tentative stab at one of the other (synchronized) gears, and then go on into first. Same goes for reverse if there was not a synchro on it. I always felt like a transmission molester doing this because I figured the synchro wear was worse than the throwout bearing wear.

It used to be a matter of great honor to be able to smoothly double-clutch into non-synchro first while coasting up to a stop. Also to be able to run up and down through the gears without even declutching at all (not a power shift, but with RPM matching in between the gears).

Probably something forgotton now, and probably for the better, too.

 

Mark, thank you for posting this. it will take me awhile to digest it.

Appreciated

Lee

 

Doesn't everybody?

When you're stopped, the only synchronization is to stop the rotation of the input shaft after unclutching it from the idling engine. With the length of the traffic lights around here, you have time to just wait for the shaft to spin down on its own. (There isn't all that much angular momentum.)

Which just brings us right back to the clutch slippage when trying to reconnect an idling engine to a stationary input shaft when pulling away from a stop.

(And that throttle blip between gears just sounds right on a Ferrari. )

(Shifting without the clutch is another thing I learned from many years with Alfas -- the clutch master cylinders used to blow out seals frequently.)

 

* True, but what about when you see that looming Escalade with the driver on the cell phone in the rear-view?

** Ah yes - I learned mine from certain rear-engined cars that can snap the clutch cable/or/linkage with a good satisfactory "sproiyoinnnng" sound. My German mechanic used to chastise me for driving it in instead of a tow because I was "using my synchronizers for a clutch". Not to mention the wear on the starter motor to get it going in first.

As long as we are on this, do very many cars (i.e. Ferrari) have a synchro on reverse? I once read that the Lamborghini Miura did - and that this was "typical lavish Lamborghini engineering".

 

That's when you tag 2nd before grabbing 1st. Another case of practice makes perfekt.

Ha. My Italian mechanic used to ridicule me if I opted for the tow instead of just driving it.

Good question. Since I started driving Italian cars over three decades ago, I haven't really tried using a synchro for reverse. I double clutch the 328 and the Alfa to retroshift from first to reverse (to back the car into the garage). If memory serves, I used to do the same with my Celica. I've always parked the EVO nose-in, so I haven't tried that.

 

Early days yet for me, but I've found I basically have to double clutch to go from 1st to reverse on the 328, or I get my grinds on.

 

All 12's since the BB, All 8's since the 348.

 

Ok so let's say I'm pulling out, or putting the car back in the garage (which involves a couple of multipoint turns. I've got the 328 in 1st at low speed, disengage the clutch, and come to a complete stop. Now I want to shift into reverse without the dreaded grind and it's attendant evil effects on the gearbox. What, in detail should I do?

 

Man, I had an identical experince, waiting to turn left in to Belieu vinyards, scouting out a wine tour. I was sitting across from the vinyard, waiting to turn across trafic, when i heard tires screaming - i looked into the rear view mirror and saw this detroit behemouth coming up on me, tires smoking, i opened my eyes a bit bigger looked forward, saw an opening, stomped the throttle, dropped the clutch and smoked the tires toget through the gap. As i stopped off the road, heart pounding, i waved out through the roof, (with all of my fingers) to the recently awakened driver sliding past where i had just been stopped. This was in my old 2000 pound 914, on a 2 lane road - scarey.

There is a lot to be said about being prepared and vigilant - and no i had not yet had a sip

best of luck,
chris

 

Do it a bit more slowly and try to slowly ease it into reverse - unless a suburban is smoking down on you

If it seems as thought it doesn't want to go in, (high effort), let the clutch out and depress it again, often this will enable it to go right in.

best,
chris

 

Perfect way to avoid expensive clutch repairs is to purcase a 400 Auto! Changes smooth, box handles the power, and you can keep both hands on the wheel!

 

I would hate to know how much it would cost to fully rebuild one of those boxes! Or are they a 'commonly' used auto trans in other cars?

 

The 400A uses a GM transmission

 

Ah, thanks mate.

 

I think most of the comments are true to some degree. I have owned a lot of high powered cars in my time and I have never replaced a clutch. I have also rarely replaced brakes. Much has to do with driving habits AND how many different people are allowed to drive the car. Do not forget multiple owners as a factor. Everyone has a certain "touch."
My mechanics are amazed that my '98 Tracker has good original brakes and clutch at 87,000 miles, and my Highlander's brakes are still doing well at 72,000 miles. I had my Lusso for thirty years and never placed brakes or clutch. You may call it luck. Then again, that same Tracker has the original '98 battery. That still amazes me.

I try to practice good maintenance such as cleaning terminals at least 4 times a year, changing oil and transmission fluid regularly and not riding brakes or clutch. I also try to follow the rules with my F1 transmissions.

I guess that is all you can do.

 

I always felt that destroying things was a good way to learn how not to. The first manual transmission cars I drove were big block Pontiac GTO's when I was 15 and 16, and I tore clutches and gearboxes out of them constantly. The drill was to boot it to 4K rpm and dump the clutch. Most of the time it worked, often it didnt. Most of the time it threw one of the torsion springs out of the disc and jammed it into the pressure plate. But every 3rd or 4th clutch or so I would bugger up the gearbox. I broke motor mounts until I learned to wrap chain around them, twisted a driveshaft until I found better HD ones, and blew a few axle shafts until I found heavier ones. The point is, I never had the car running long enough to wear anything out before I broke something. The summer I was 17 I put almost 20 clutches in one car. Then I bought an MGB and learned how to drive like an adult. I got almost 70K miles out of that car before the clutch slipped.

With the Ferrari I see no need to ever make dragstip takeoffs. I would be a damned fool to ever drag someone from a light. If we treat the car with reverence and intelligence, the clutches should last a very long time. Obviously higher HP cars with low speed torque require more slipping to get them rolling, but with a light touch even those can be coaxed enough to get some decent mileage out of a clutch. There are big Semi Tractors like Peterbuilts, and a guy can get a million miles out of a clutch driving it right. But put a dimwit behind the wheel and they can tear up in a clutch in a day or two. Less if they really burn it good. How long a clutch will last is like asking how high is up. Let your idiot friend or ***** relative drive it and you might see just how long one lasts.

 

Looks like you spent a lot of "quality time" with the GTO. No better way to learn what not to do now.

 

Heh Heh! Yeah those ‘Goats’ always were a POS! [] A couple friends them and I was always kicking their butts.
On the other hand, my 67 Mustang fastback GT, hopped up 390, 4 speed, Mickey Thompson cheater slicks, never broke!
Same drill, up the rpm’s to 3500/4K dump the clutch, then full throttle power shifts, wife riding shotgun giggling, new baby in the back seat sound asleep.
And my one drag racing ticket cost me a whopping 50 bucks!
Fun and crazy times back then.