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Discussion in 'F1' started by PSk, Sep 11, 2009.
... Mercedes buying (or buying a stake in) BRAWN and leaving McLaren?
All over F1-live.
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well I for one wasn't talking about it because I didnt realise it would be brawn INSTEAD of mclaren...but if that's the case, it's big news!!
Well, this thread seemed to stall out.
I haven't looked in a couple days--have they announced a total pullout from McLaren, or is it going to be involved with both teams?
I already mentioned it on here days ago. There isn't much to the story other than Brawn's future is secured and McLaren has to find a new engine partner.
And since I don't give a rat's xxx about McLaren I couldn't care less. It is FERRARIchat after all.
Maybe Ferrari will power them. Yeah right.
Also, unless MB makes it official and parts with McLaren, it means nothing, IMO.
Maybe I'm missing something, but how did you arrive at this conclusion?
It wasn't my conclusion it was a pretty clear statement in the press:
The engine manufacturers pick and choose to whom they give engines for cost and competition reasons. McLaren has screwed Mercedes over all these years and there is some very bad blood by now. That's why they want a different partner, which they now have in Brawn (Mercedes was mortified at the Spygate scandal for instance and hated Ron Dennis' arrogance with a passion).
The McLaren-Mercedes contract will end at the end of the 2010 season, so Mercedes can elegantly pull the plug. And I'm glad they do. McLaren can go back to Cosworth and see how they fare then. Hahaha!
But we're happy to dribble on about Renault and other bollocks but when the team second only to Ferrari has something very important happening it's missing on this site ... yeah I guess this is not the place to come to chat about F1
BTW: My father (now 72) who has religiously watched F1 since it started has finally given up watching. When I was a kid we used to have a big chart on the garage wall with all the drivers names and we would fill out the results, etc. That was back in the days before it was on TV regularly. As far as I am concerned the fact that Dad can no longer stand it means it is completely over. He's still involved with motorsport and is often the starter for classic meetings, including F5000 races.
Would you care to give a source for this pretty clear statement in the press?
"McLaren has screwed Mercedes over all these years" - nonsense.
It is highly unlikely that Mercedes would stop supplying engines to a company it partly owns, so if there is any suggestion that they are going to do so it implies that they will also offload their shares in McLaren. That's always possible but I don't see it happening. McLaren are arguably the most successful team in F1 (based on WDC wins/years in F1) and Mercedes bought into them for that reason, they won't give up that association lightly.
I tend to agree, they have been a very successfull partnership.
What I believe is or have read as a rumour is that MB wants to put Nico Rosberg into the Brawn team alongside Jenson Button to give German fans someone to get excited about.
MB can get overuled at Mclaren as they only have a 40% share, the other factor could be there road car.
MB acquired AMG to become its in-house developer of high performance vehicles. McLaren pushed ahead with the development of its own MP4-12C. There is no obvious M Benz involvement in that project.
The rumour is Brawn will race next year in a silver livery, with Mercedes branding and a sponsorship deal from a German company...?
Interesting stuff, Steve.
I haven't heard what percentage stake MB are taking in Brawn, do you know if it will be a majority holding?
Just read an article in Autocar about the MP4-12C and, although there is indeed no MB involvement, I wouldn't have thought the production of that car would be a particular issue. MB have had links with AMG from well before there were any McLaren Mercedes on the road. I doubt, too, that the MP4-12C will be a direct competitor for MB AMGs, although future McLaren's might be.
It'll be interesting to see how this all pans out.
Wow--flashback! The person responsible for steering me towards F1 was a neighbor of ours back in the early 70s. His den was a shrine to the sport, with books, models and memorabilia that left me in awe. But he always kept a chart on his refrigerator, written very neatly on graph paper, that followed the championship points. He passed away about 10 years ago but would be in his upper 70s now. He had built several 1:12 models that were displayed in the den, and his widow gave them to me.
Do you mean that McLaren can "make" Mercedes supply them with engines?
Well it's all speculation but feasible I supppose, I would imagine MB would want near as damn it full control over the Brawn outfit if true, so yes a majority holding although I haven't read anything about that. Other than it gets a bit complicated with an outfit called Aabar Investments, a public joint stock company which is listed on the Abu Dhabi Securities Exchange, who will aquire 75% of the Brawn shares
Only... Aabar paid out $2.7bn for a 9.1% shareholding in Daimler AG, the parent company of MB..interesting eh!!
There doesn't seem much cash flowing Brawns way, as in sponsers ect, Virgin are throwing there towel in with another team which is strange to me, so maybe this has some bearing on it.
The MP4-12C is just something else to bear in mind probably not an issue.
Oh and MB's exclusive deal with Mclaren comes to a end in 2012
No, not as I'am aware although a deal has been struck with them till 2012. MB has only a 40% stake in Mclaren well I say (only) it's alot, but maybe not enough for them to have the amount of say in the way things are done as they would like.
Do you know if the Brawn engine is exactly specified as the McL engine? Or vice versa.
I cannot see why not, although I don't know for certain..
Engine freeze is said to be over next year to let others catch up to Mercedes powered outfits.Should suite the hothead Ferrari motor..
I think Mercedes is looking for a lower cost partner than McLaren. Take one look at that overblown design center of theirs and you know where all Mercedes money went.
The term 'screwed over' was my somewhat liberal translation, but it hits the spirit of the text.
I believe McLaren and Mercedes are parting ways completely.
The last McLaren road car was a disaster and has been criticised by everybody for being too much Mercedes (heck you could not even purchase a manual one!). McLaren wants to become a proper manufacturer (God only knows why?) and thus wants to correct this completely and as far as I understand do not want to have anything to do with Mercedes when it comes to road cars.
I thus believe Mercedes 40% of McLaren will be bought out and McLaren will again be directing freely their own ship.
When you think about it, Mercedes road cars are almost the complete opposite of where surely the McLaren road car needs to place itself. Mercedes road cars are trucks and always have been, fast and reliable trucks but trucks and their solution to performance is always to add a couple of litres and pour in some more torque ... rubbish engineering.
Because McLaren and Mercedes are no longer collaborating on road cars doesn't mean that MB will dispose of it's 40% holding in McLaren's F1 team. The McLaren road cars are made by a different company, one in which MB has no shareholding, so McLaren is already free to direct their own ship in that arena. There is no reason why MB cannot have an interest in more than one F1 team so no good reason for them to sell their McLaren shares, except perhaps they need the money because they have just made a big loss.