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Why did Jaques Villeneuve leave Williams in the first place?

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by millemiglia, Sep 16, 2004.

  1. millemiglia

    millemiglia Formula Junior

    Jan 14, 2003
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    Peter B.
    My memorie is failing but didn't JV leave Williams after becoming WC?

    Did he leave or did he get fired?

    /Peter
     
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  3. hps

    hps Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
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    No He ran one more season in 1998, ........remember that awful Winfield Livery ?
    He then went for the $$$$$$ at BAR in 1999

    hps
     
  4. Admiral Thrawn

    Admiral Thrawn F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2003
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    Money! He's now one of the wealthiest people in F1, with a net worth over $100 million. While at BAR he was commanding over $20 million / year.
     
  5. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    Well money was part of the reason he left. The other reason was Sir Frank Williams was getting tired with Villeneuves "rock star" attitude.
     
  6. Koby

    Koby Formula 3

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    It should also be noted that Williams was going through a transitional phase. After 97 Renualt pulled out of F1 as a full factory effort, and Williams was running a development of the 97 motor badged Mechachrome. This was also the year McLaren reinvented themselves and started dominating.
     
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  8. watt

    watt Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
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    admiral,
    on what do you base this? i thought he made 12 at BAR, and was only in f1 for what 4 years... where did 100 million come from, given his expenditure? thanks just like to know
     
  9. Schatten

    Schatten F1 World Champ
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  10. writerguy

    writerguy F1 Veteran

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    the williams efforts became "Menardi" like when the Renault pulled out and JV left partly for the$$ and also for the promice of FACTORY HONDA support and the fact that his buddy (and manager) Craig Pollock was one of the many many owners of BAR (too many cooks) with Adrian Renard and if I remember 4 others.

    Like anything they had too many people up there ^^^
     
  11. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
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    Anthony C.
    First of all, keep in mind that unless one of us knows JV personally, none of us will ever really know the truth.

    My understanding is:
    Frank William is not exactly the nicest team owner out there either. He usually refuses to pay the drivers their worth and believes that it is privilage to be piloting a FW-XX (Ironically, very similar to Enzo Ferrar himself). Nigel Mansell, Damon Hill and JV all left the team due to lack of support from FW. Adrian Newly was said to have left Williams because he was unhappy with how FW treated DH, hence his departure to McLaren following DH's departure. Which leads me to wonder if JPM left for similar reason as well. Think about this, with RS leaving, JPM would be the uncontested number 1 driver on a team with plenty of money and techical support. If all is well, why would JPM want to leave the team. I think there is a lot more there than meets the eye here.

    It is true that JV left for a massive higher pay at BAR. But at the same time, one must remember that all the drivers wants to be treated like MS has been at Ferrari, an uncontested number 1 status with full team support and even personel control to a point. As much as our fellow FerrariChat members here likes to b*tch and cry about how unfair it is for Ruben, and how it has made F1 boring .....etc. I think it has become necessary to have a team to run like that, such is the way and the "magic equation" of winning in the Corporate world of F1 (There is no longer a F1 community, it is more like spy vs spy these days) And with that said, it would be interesting to see if McLaren can still pull it off by having two "number 1" drivers next year with KR and JPM on board. Anyway, JV wanted to build a team of his own around himself like MS did with Ferrari. JV has long association and great relationship with Honda and that was actually part of the lure for Honda decided to return to F1. Also, I think he was suppose to own even part of the team. As for what went wrong for him at BAR, I think it was simply the bad formula of "too many witches spoil the brew" situation. There were key conflicts between managements from Honda, chassis designer (I forget who it was....they also design Champ cars at the time, I don't think it was Lola) and most importantly, part owner/JV's manager Craig Pollock who I think was the culpit of it all. He had too many personal agendas and conflict of interests within the team, much like how Briatore really shouldn't be allow to manage drivers and the run a F1 team. I think it is kind of like insider trading on Wall Street or dating your own clients or patients and really shouldn't be allowed.

    Anyway, that's what I can recall from memory. I think it is a little harsh that people are bashing JV so much on this forum and just want to point out that it wasn't really that one sided at all.
     
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  13. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

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    What turned out to be one of the biggest issues in the whole BAR/Pollock/Villeneuve saga was the fact that Pollock would continue to give raises to Jacques which meant more money back into Pollock's pocket, since he was JV's manager as well as team principal. This led to Pollock's eventual displacement, which left JV dangling in the wind.
     
  14. kizdan

    kizdan F1 Veteran

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    The chassis was a Reynard, by the way.

    I always wondered what qualified Craig Pollock to run an F1 team. I mean, up until that point in time, his only experience in F1 was as JV's manager. If Jackie Stewart couldn't make a success out of a brand spanking new F1 team, where does Pollock get off thinking that he could?

    It was admirable of JV to want to take a team from the ground floor to World Championship winners, admirable - yes, attainable - highly unlikely.
     
  15. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

    Nov 18, 2003
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    I don't think that Craig Pollock was running the team at all, not that he has the qualifications to begin with anyway. As for Sir Jackie Stewart, he was certainly gaining momentum with Team Stewart. I think RB finished 2nd (1st time podium for RB) in a Stewart. Ford should have taken up the position as MB and BMW did with McLaren and Williams since Stewart was using the Ford engine anyway. Even if Ford wanted to maket Jaguar as the performance division, they could have let it be known as Stewart-Jaguar even. It was just another case of bad management in Ford's part.

    As for JV and BAR, I think it was a similar situation as in bad management. For those of us here State-side, this is not exactly the first time and it will not be the last time when an agent screwed things up. Most of the agents in major sports are not there to watch out for their clients or the teams. They don't even care or respect the purity of the sports, all they cared about is how hard can they ride their clients and how much money will they get out of representing them...... Is there any wonder that most of them are lawyers to begin with?
     
  16. kizdan

    kizdan F1 Veteran

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    I don't know if I would agree with that. RB gained second in that race after all of the front runners dropped out. It was not a head-to-head battle, more due to attrition. I never saw Stewart as ever being more than a mid-pack team. Here comes Ford with endless deep pockets, and only now show signs of promise, and only on occasion, and much of it due to the driving talents of Mark Weber. You made the comparison of Ford, MB, and BMW only providing engines to a team rather than building the entire car. The big difference is that the other two went to very well established chassis manufacturers in the likes of Williams and McLaren, whereas the Stewart team was starting from scratch.

    Where do you think Honda would be now if they had went with Williams or McLaren when they returned to F1? I think they maybe would have actually won a race a few years ago versus still chasing that win with BAR.
     
  17. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

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    It's called hubris. Pollock thought that with all the money in the world, there was no way he could fail. Then he started spending like a rock star and sealed his fate.
     
  18. F1racer

    F1racer F1 Rookie

    Oct 5, 2003
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    Like Jack said...
    It was the BAR/Pollock/Villeneuve saga.

    You know JV could had gone to Renault in 2002. (they wanted him) But he decided to stay with BAR. At that time it looked to be good decision by JV but now as you can see it wasn't.
     
  19. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

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    Team Stewart was still a young team back then, I think it may be no more than 3 or 4 years old. With Jackie at the helm, he would have been able to bring sponsorship dollars and may be able to entice great techinical people to the team also. The fact is that Jackie was smart enough to sell his team to Ford for major bucks just as the team is beginning to show some promise, even if it was only a mid-tier team. Overall, a great business decision on his part, but a lousy decision for the sport. And let's not forget also, Jaguar/Ford did try to improve by attempting to lure Adrian Newy a couple of years ago.

    And let's not forget that MS won his first WDC with a Ford bolted to the back of his car in 1994. Yes, he was a superior driver with a great team and a great car, but neverless, it was still a Ford that powered him to the podiums. The result was that Bennetton-Ford knocked the juggernut Williams-Renault off the top. And let's face it, there are only one Team McLaren and one Team Williams, just like there is and always will be only one Team Ferrari, there are only so many top, well established team for a engine manufacture to join forces with. At the same time, it also doesn't mean new teams can not be successful in F1. Last time I checked, Renault and BAR are both doing okay sitting ahead of the Williams and McLaren.

    And as for me, I am glad to see major manufactures entering F1 with their own engines and cars such as Toyota and Renault. This the key to the future of F1, true global competition from manufactures around the world. I am glad that neither company took the easy way out by just "join" forces with a existing top team. Yes, it may take them longer to win a race, but at least they will have done it on their own terms and with their own cars. To me, as great as McLaren, Williams, BMW or MB are, they will always be know as a component of a team, and that somewhat makes their victories a little hollow.

    And I am not too sure about how well Honda would be doing now if they had joined McLaren or Williams, their engines were highly un-reliable and was over-weight and under powered until this year. So let's try not to introduce the "if" component into the discussion as it is pretty much meaningless. And for the same reason listed above, I for one am glad to see them trying to be part of something special by starting from zero instead of taking the easy way in. That desire alone should be admired and respected.
     
  20. kizdan

    kizdan F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2003
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    I, too, admire a manufacturer who goes at it on their own. The sad reality though, is that no manufacturer, aside from Ferrari, has committed to the sport permanently. Renault has come and gone, and is now back. Let's hope Toyota is in this for the long haul, and other manufacturers follow suit.
     
  21. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Money , Money , money ...
     
  22. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

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    I think that the two teams mentioned will stay in F1 for the long term, and as for Renault, now they are fielding their own team instead of just being the engine supplier. VW has been long rumored to be interested in F1, they just might enter with their Audi division. Interestingly, out of the three major German manufactures, BMW is consider the weakest when it comes to money. They are similar to Honda as in when it comes to size of the company and the capitols available, however, they are just as if not more active in motorsports.
     

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