Why does everyone bash The AUTO TOY STORE ? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Why does everyone bash The AUTO TOY STORE ?

Discussion in 'Florida' started by lotusboy, Dec 22, 2003.

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  1. Cavallino Motors

    Cavallino Motors F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    May 31, 2001
    14,143
    Florida or Argentina
    Full Name:
    Martin W.
    Thanks Mark,

    was a pleasure meeting you. Hey you should come to our drives and soforth. This Sunday...8:30 Collection on Bird Rd.
     
  2. wings

    wings Formula Junior

    Dec 13, 2003
    839
    [Q
    South Florida Dealers in Exotics like Prestige, Exotic Cars Wholsale, Auto Toy Store, and others have EARNED their reputation. If the words "Caveat Emptor" ever applied to anyone, they apply there!


    UOTE=mshuman]I've been to Prestige Imports several times because they're near my home. My experience has been the same as eam3's. Twice I looked at Porsche 968s that were obviously wrecked (one had different color quarterpanels in the trunk), but the salesman denied it both times. I looked at an Audi A4 and after I pointed out that one of the fenders was painted, they couldn't tell me why. Most recently they wouldn't let me drive a 1978 GTB after they couldn't get it started, because it had just rained and they didn't think I was "serious." I bought a 1984 308 GTB QV about a month ago and after lurking on this news group for several months, this is my first post.

    I did meet Martin when looking for my car and I would buy a car from him.[/QUOTE]
     
  3. ECW guy

    ECW guy Rookie

    Jan 14, 2004
    21
    Martin,

    1. please be specific about a car of yours we advertised, because that never happened. We have alot more cars than you and don't need to advertise yours. Perhaps you're confusing us with someone else.

    2. Identify who Modman is so I can answer with facts. If we did keep his deposit, it was because we earned it.

    3. Speaking of honesty, you are advertising a 1999 blue 355 spi that you claim has light paintwork that is barly noticable, but we bought and sold that car (and disclosed everything) and know it was hit hard and has paintwork all over it that's obvious.

    You say "This car has had a light hit on the driver’s side front fender. It has been professionally repaired and there is no rebuilt/salvage history. In fact if you do not know about the repaint you would never know. No frame damage. "

    Well that car definetly had frame damage.The shock tower was obviously bent. All undertrays were torn off and had to be replaced as well as the rear wheel. The interior had tears and paint spots on it, so it must have been redone. The enitre front of the car had chips and scratches all over, so it must have been repainted. In fact it was one of the biggest pieces for crap we ever had, and was so far below the quality of cars we sell, that we gave it away just not to have it stinking up our showroom. it was honestly an embarrassment. We have pictures of it from when we had it and proof of all I am saying. Feel free to email us at [email protected] if you want me to forward them.

    So, Do you not know how to look at a car, or are you just lying??

    I'm sure you're going to say its an honest mistake, but see how things can be made to look? You represent yourself as the bastian of honesty in the Ferrari community, so how do you explain this? Because you didn't know, and I believe you, but it could be blown way out of proportion.

    I'm not trying to attack you, just show you the other side. As I said before. Bring me specific situations where you think we did something wrong, and Ill be glad to pull the records and go over them. But don't just spread rumors without proof. As a dealer, you more than anyone should know better.

    And, you should change the info in that Blue 355 spider before the guy who buys it sues you for misresentation.

    I apologize for having to expose this on the forums, but you left me no choice. I hope you get the point.
     
  4. ECW guy

    ECW guy Rookie

    Jan 14, 2004
    21
    For clarification purposes. We didn't buy that 355 spi, we took it on trade against a 360 coupe. We would never buy a car that rough.
     
  5. spyderman33

    spyderman33 Formula Junior

    Jan 9, 2004
    486
    MIA/ATL
    Full Name:
    Julian
    I tried getting a car from ECW back in October.. Mark Sebring was assisting but I didn't get a good vibe.. As a businessman you develop that sixth sense and it told me to stay away..

    He was way too pushy.. Calling me 4 times in a row on my cell while I was in a meeting.. That did it for me.. I promptly told him that I don't rush to buy things.. Even though $60K (NSX) is not alot of money compared to a Modena or Lambo but it's my money and I go as fast or as slow as I want in buying a car..

    He kept insisting on a deposit and I remember that it was high .. Might have been $5K.. I refused and now looking back I am glad I did..

    I just didn't get that comfortable feeling.. Now looking back at the emails he sent me, I realize that even though he stated on the phone that the car was local, it really wasn't..
     
  6. ECW guy

    ECW guy Rookie

    Jan 14, 2004
    21
    Mark can be pushy. He gets a little too excited sometimes. It does turn some people off, but he doesnt mean bad by it, and he consistently is the number 1 salesman in the company.

    I hope you got the car you were looking for.
     
  7. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
    6,099
    MA USA
    Full Name:
    Mr. Doody
    i have no experience with any of the shops mentioned in this thread, so can't comment specifically about those dealerships.

    but i've said it before and i'll say it again, the state of FL has unfortunate laws in place regarding motor vehicle deposits. in many states (like MA) deposits on cars are handled by very strict rules in very specific types of bank accounts, and they are 100% refundable period. if a dealer behaves badly in this regard the state can adn will pull their license.

    the dealers and brokers in FL should be working to have these laws cleaned up. the density of high-end car broker/dealers in FL as compares to say, CA, the sixth of seventh largest economy on planet earth isn't a random fluke. uneducated consumers can get toasted in FL on deposits. the honest dealers and brokers should be working to get these laws tightened up so that car dealers in that state can and will be held to a higher ethical standard than the effective standard dictated by the consumer-unfriendly rules.

    that will go A HUGE WAY towards people having more comfort with FL dealers. it will reduce the negative vibe about FL dealers. it will quickly separate the men from the boys of FL dealers, and that can only be good business for the men.

    doody.
     
  8. Cavallino Motors

    Cavallino Motors F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    May 31, 2001
    14,143
    Florida or Argentina
    Full Name:
    Martin W.
    Well Vince,

    lets see. Shelton had the car on the lift and Franco had it inspected and certified to us on their letterhead that this car never had frame damage. At least this FRAME never had damage. It could be that the frame had been replaced in Italy and restamped with the VIN, this has/is happening on several cars. Not that I think it has in this case but anyhow. I was under the car and YES, ther eis no sign of frame damage. I disclose that the car has a replacement A-Arm. That it was possibly repainted total, since it is hard to match metalic paints, but no, you can not tell.

    Maybe we are talking about two different cars?


    The 328GTS was taken off my website and put on yours. It was a consignment car I had in Jupiter. I was alerted to the fact that you did copy my pictures and posted them as YOUR car when another dealer told me "well, who really has the car for sale? It is offered at ECW and you claim to have it as well." After he could not get an appointment through you and I could immediately put him in touch with the owner, he believed that I in fact had the contact. This is last year spring.

    Since I do not have the file her ein my house I can get you the name of the dealer who alerted me on monday.


    Ask Rob who Modman is. He can give you his e-mail and he will be happy to get his money back for a car that you never had but took a deposit on and never returned such. As I said, I do not take deposits. The guy that bought my 355CH sent me a deposit since he was out of town for a week. He wanted to make sure I hold the car for him. I never cashed his check until the day he came back and we did the paperwork. THAT is honest dealing.

    Why do you think so many people are pissed at you (ECW)? Misrepresenting cars, taking deposits on cars you never owned or already sold then not returning the deposits? Why are you so eager to get a deposit on a car? Tino was interested in an NSX turbo something special. He said he will fly to FtLauderdale and come with cash but wants to see the car. He was given the run around. No, you first have to send a deposit before we can let you make these arrangements.

    There is that deposit again.

    Since there is not much of a Dollar you can make on exotics and it is more a power trip of the owners of these companies, I am happy to say I do it for fun. Not having to screw people over a deposit to make my next rent check is a great thing.

    As far as the 355 Spider, well I am sure you guys ar emuch more qualified than Shelton Ferrari to determin frame damage.
    How did you dispose of the car? You sold it? You traded it to a dealer? Auction? Please fill me in! If you sold it tell me to whom so I can find out if you told him about the severe crash you claim and the frame damage etc. I am sure he will be surprised to know.
     
  9. ECW guy

    ECW guy Rookie

    Jan 14, 2004
    21
    Martin,

    You are handling this the complete wrong way, but if this is the way you want to go, then OK.

    1. My pointing out the problem on the blue car was actually me trying to help. If you were as honest as you claim, you wouldn't be attacking me, you'd be asking me for the records so you can confirm what i'm saying. Do you not want to know the truth? I can even put you on the phone with the guy who wrecked it. It is the same car, we checked the VIN. Again, I'll be glad to let you know from where we got it and to whom it was sold (fully disclosed). We stand behind our description and will gladly forward proof to anyone who is interested in the car, so they don't get ripped off by you.

    2. If you are not making money in your business, then you obviously don't know how to run a business, because we and most of the other dealers we know do just fine. In fact, better than fine. Lets ask some of them and find out.

    3. As for not taking deposits making you honest, then Every authorized Ferrari dealer and all the other big exotic dealers I know are theives and scumbags because they all take deposits. You must walk on water. Is it hard being perfect?

    I started out trying to be nice and clear up some misconceptions. You're the one who starting attacking. Did you expect me not to fight back?

    I'm not looking for a war but if you want one, remember in war both sides get hurt.

    You say lots of people are pissed at us. I'll produce 100 times that number who are happy repeat customers. Since we started 8 years ago we've sold over $200 million in cars, how about you?

    Back to the deposits, let me ask you this. If someone tells you they are going to buy your car, but it will take 3 weeks to pay for it, do you take it off the market?

    If they gave you a deosit to hold it, and have you do a major service and put aftermarket wheels on the car before they picked it up ( you don't expect payment, it seems until they pick it up) and then they said they couldn't complete the transaction, would you just pay for it and take the loss? Problably, since you don't make money.

    Can you think of any possible situation in which a deposit could and should be forfieted? Any at all?

    And what gives Modman credibility? How do you know he's not lying. You have no proof. You'd be a great juror. Covict before you hear the case. All you show is you narrow minded ignorace.

    But apparently you're perfect and flawless. You could never admit to the mistake on the Blue 355. I will say this again. I will produce proof of everthing I'm saying. I will produce proof and records for ANY situation that you claim we did something wrong. Now you produce proof.

    As for your claim that we used your pictures, I still don't know what you're talking about. PRODUCE PROOF.

    You should be aware there is a company on the west coast of Florida who is not us that call themselves Exotic Car Wholesalers and one in Texas who is also not us called Exotic Car Wholesale (without the s).

    OK, Now lets take a deep breath and make friends. How about this. Come up to our showroom and let me buy you lunch. Come see the quality of our cars and meet our people. Educate yourself. Then post your findings.

    I'll be happy to apologize to you, and you can apologize to me. You have a choice now. If you want to continue, I'm in.
     
  10. Cavallino Motors

    Cavallino Motors F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    May 31, 2001
    14,143
    Florida or Argentina
    Full Name:
    Martin W.
    Vince you certainly talk well.
    Even looks like you are a nice guy.
    Hey, you may be the guy to go to at ECW if you do not do all the things that others are accusing you.

    The deal you describe I would probably not deal with the guy and tell him he should get his financing in order and we talk in 3 weeks. If the car is sold we'll find him another. As for the service needing to be done I handle it, you buy the car and we pay the service. If the car is priced right he will pay for the service or if he feels better we will pay for the service after he bought it. We have done both with our mechanic before.
    If the car needs a service (like our yellow one) we do it before we even offer the car. Aftermaket wheels, get them yourself and have them put on the car. Why should a dealer get involved. To make another couple of hundred $$$? I sell cars not wheels.

    As for the blue car:
    please send me the phone number of the owner. that crashed the car. I would love to talk to him. e-mail me direct at [email protected]
    I am sure you value Shelton as a reputable dealer. Why would they certify the car had no frame damage and you claim it has?

    As for deposits, Shelton for example does not take deposits on car orders. This was at least a few months back.

    As far as Modman, as I said go deep into the archives and you will find more than just Modman. You will find others that had the same problem with you guys. That may just have been that when there were 1000 Users a year back that we found all 3 where that ever happened that ECW held their deposit? Yes, it may. Highly unlikely though, I am sure you agree.

    Yes, Vince, you will never be able to make everybody happy. Yes, there are bad customers that try to rip you off, I had my share as well and yes, they will talk bad about you.

    Here is a great way to make it right for you. Get in touch with Rob. Get Modman to have a discussion with you and clear up the unresolved item. Since you are talking legal, the burden of proof lies with you, although here you are the accused.

    As far as me not knowing how to run a business, yep very likely. :)

    Vince, when I am up that way I will call you and we will get together.
     
  11. tifosi

    tifosi F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa

    Sep 5, 2001
    5,382
    texas
    Full Name:
    Tom D
    We never get this much excitment outside the main forum :) here are soem quotes from Modman. Seems he dealt with Vince who appears to be the poster here

    Modman said

    The two people I dealt with is Vince, and the owner I believe Richard. They both ignored my calls and messages knowing it was me, then I had a friend call in for a car and instantly they both are readily available for taking your money. They are born crooks, Vince tried to sell a car to me outside of the business so he could get all the commision for himself and turns out the car he found for me was a piece of *hit that was painted by spray can on the lower part of the car and it wasted my day of travel time and money. If we can get the word out as much as possible about these crooks it would be my pleasure to see these guys go to prison or the least go out of business permanently.

    another poster

    Thanks for all of the input on ECW. I have decided not to use their service since I have heard about 10 horror stories from this list and a recent Ferrari club meeting.

    My situation was as follows:

    I knew exactly what car I wanted (year, model, colors, style, options, etc.).

    I had called around the country a few days looking (but not finding). The last Autoweek listed the exact car I wanted. It was for sale at Exotic Car Wholesale.

    I called and was told it was "ready to go". It is pristine; no nicks, scrapes, etc. In the sales guy's opinion, it had never been mistreated in its 1300 mile life.

    I immediately made an offer, and it was accepted. He then told me to go make a $5000 deposit at my local First Union into their "holding account". I instead offered a credit card deposit of $5000 to hold the car, and when I went down to get it they would get a cashier's check for the entire amount. I indicated that the credit card charge could be refunded so they were not out the fee.

    No dice. The wanted $5000 cash/cashier's check deposited to their account right away to hold the car.

    At this point I told him that I'd call back. In the meantime (10 minutes), I reserved a flight from Dulles to Miami that evening (Thursday).

    I called the salesman back, and told him that I would be there the next morning with a cashier's check for the car, I would inspect it myself, and if it looked good, I'd take delivery immediately.

    All hell broke loose then. They are in an office with no showroom; they stock no cars; the car in question is "out west". He then tells me some guy just traded a Lamborghini Diablo VT on it, and I was out of luck. The only chance I had to get the car I wanted was to immediately deposit $5000 in their account. And pray the Lambo guy backed out, if he didn't they would get another one if possible.

    As it finally turned out, the guy admitted they don't stock cars, and all they do is look for them once you give them a deposit. That deposit is used to look for the car, and the full amount is applied if you make the buy. My assumption based on others input is that when they don't find one (or the deal isn't sweet enough to them), you are out a "finding fee" (a portion or all of you $5000 deposit).

    This is my experience only


    I agree that a few deals can go bad and people end up upset but the number of bad stories outnumber the good ones signficantly - I can't remember a good story! In the end these dealers are a dime a dozen so why not just go elsewhere.
     
  12. tifosi

    tifosi F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa

    Sep 5, 2001
    5,382
    texas
    Full Name:
    Tom D
    BTW, if I was Vince and Modman is off his rocker - you probably have a very good slander lawsuit
     
  13. tifosi

    tifosi F1 Veteran
    Lifetime Rossa

    Sep 5, 2001
    5,382
    texas
    Full Name:
    Tom D
    in the interest of full disclosure - here is a semi positive post

    I need to set it straight: as far as I am concerned, Exotic just reimbursed me. I just had to call them regularly for 2 days and checking on the status of my reimbusment which I asked to be sent back to me via FedEx.

    At this point, the grief I have is that I never managed to see pictures or documents of the car discussed for 2 months, then I got pressured to put a deposit, which sat there another 2 months before I backed off the contract and asked for my money back.

    Finally I waited 2 weeks and then had to assist them in getting that final step done.
    I am happy (maybe lucky as well) that I have my money back, which I will use to maintain my newly aquired somewhere else car.



    May I ask who gets all the interest on the deposits place with you? Using your analogy -- When I buy a house the buyer and/or seller not the broker
     
  14. spyderman33

    spyderman33 Formula Junior

    Jan 9, 2004
    486
    MIA/ATL
    Full Name:
    Julian
    can't we all just get along?
     
  15. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
    Sponsor

    Nov 3, 2003
    6,086
    En El 305
    Full Name:
    Barton Workman
    To clear up any misconceptions, Martin does walk on water!

    BHW
     
  16. wax

    wax Five Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jul 20, 2003
    51,458
    SFPD
    Full Name:
    Dirty Harry
    1999 Article: If God Gives You Lemons, Make Millions
    http://www.newtimesbpb.com/issues/1999-07-16/news.html

    Vince - this article is less than 4 years old, concerning "The Auto Toy Store" - not "The New Auto Toy Store." Regardless, you've been there 8 years. Care to elaborate?
     
  17. ECW guy

    ECW guy Rookie

    Jan 14, 2004
    21
    OK, I'll try to answer people in reverse order:

    Wax.
    I don't and never have worked at the Auto Toy Store. I work at Exotic Cars Wholesale. There are very few dealers in the country that we won't do business with. The Toy Store is one of them.

    Barton. LOL!

    Spyderman. I agree!

    Tfosi:

    First, I appreciate your posts and your even handed way of looking at things. You are right about us having a case for Slander (or is it Libel?). However we certainly don't want to go that route. I hate Lawyers.

    We still don't know who Modman is and I'm sure if we found out and pulled the records, some people would change their opinion. If what we did is so clearly wrong, why hasn't he sued us?

    For clarification purposes, up until 2 years ago we had no showroom, and stocked only 1 or 2 cars at a time. Now we have a large showroom and keep 20-40 cars at any one time. See below.

    Also for clarification purposes, we do not have the ability to accept credit cards, but we do take personal checks.

    Also, in the state of Florida, in real estate matters, the holder of the deposit, whether it is the attorney or the broker is the beneficiary of the interest, not the buyer or seller.

    As for selling cars we don't have here, we do it all the time. So do most dealers. We do not, however, advertise a car unless its real and available. If someone calls us for a car that we don't have, it would be doing a disservice not to try to find him the car he wants. We keep a database (which you'll find on our website www.exotics4less.com ) that has about 2000 cars on it, It includes our own cars, plus cars that are offered to us from other dealers and individuals. That way we can try to fulfill the dreams of a prospective buyer, even if the car is not in stock. And, of course, it gives us a chance to make a profit ( this is, after all, a business.)

    Anyway, thank you for taking the time to post.

    Martin. Thank you for your response. I will forward you everything I have on the blue car including where we got it and where we sold it. I would really like to be friends.
     
  18. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
    6,099
    MA USA
    Full Name:
    Mr. Doody
    wow - that's an interesting article.

    the time period in question is 4.5 years (asuming "1995" means January 1995, which it probably doesn't).

    40 lawsuits in that period means one new lawsuit every six weeks.

    egads. that's not a good statistic.

    the "attempted murder" thing was certainly amusing ;). i'll have to remember that one ;)

    it'd be curious to learn about the outcome or status of those 40 lawsuits.

    doody.
     
  19. ECW guy

    ECW guy Rookie

    Jan 14, 2004
    21
    Sorry, forgot the showroom picture.
     
  20. ECW guy

    ECW guy Rookie

    Jan 14, 2004
    21
    #45 ECW guy, Jan 19, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  21. Cavallino Motors

    Cavallino Motors F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    May 31, 2001
    14,143
    Florida or Argentina
    Full Name:
    Martin W.
    "Also, in the state of Florida, in real estate matters, the holder of the deposit, whether it is the attorney or the broker is the beneficiary of the interest, not the buyer or seller. "

    Vince you are wrong here.
    Since I am a bad business man and also own a real estate brokerage (which is doing great) I can tell you that neither lawyers, not real eastate ESCROW accounts are for the benefit of the lawyer/broker. In fact if you do get interest on such an account (we have an average $200,000 floating there) you have to disclose and get consensus from the depositor that you will receive such interest. In fact we were thinking about setting up an interest account for this purpose and have the interest beingin donated to Charity. The paperwork would have been mind bogling so we did not do it!
     
  22. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
    Sponsor

    Nov 3, 2003
    6,086
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    Full Name:
    Barton Workman
    Martin is about the best friend anyone could ever hope to have and that comes from the heart.

    BHW
     
  23. ECW guy

    ECW guy Rookie

    Jan 14, 2004
    21
    Thanks Martin. You are correct. I was mistaken. But the buyer and seller don't get it do they? I think the bank gets the benefit of the interest. Am I right?

    BTW, the "bad businessman" comment was in the context of our discussion. My point was that we make plenty of money here.

    Hope to get to meet you in person. Perhaps at Cavillino.
     
  24. SupercarGuru

    SupercarGuru F1 Rookie
    Sponsor

    Dec 14, 2003
    3,743
    Fl
    Full Name:
    John Temerian
    Hey Martin we have a small place here in Palm Beach County, id like to talk to you off of Ferrari Chat about some cars i have for sale and what i need! Email me at [email protected]

    --need--360 stick car US

    Thanks!
     
  25. Robin

    Robin F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    2,931
    Arlington, VA
    I was wondering what was up with the blue 99 spider. Martin has it in his garage and is asking 95k for it, but there's another place in FL (maybe something like Euro Auto Investments??) that has his pictures and description, but is asking 115k for it. I looked around today to see if I could find it again, but it seems to have disappeared.

    -R
     

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